Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[OneTrackMinded]

As an attempt to for once not talk about the multiple delays to the programme like usual, what are your opinions on the originally intended black fronts for the 701? I've come across this collection of all the aventras in some sort of concept art stage which shows that design from the front instead of the side like previously seen

Personally I prefer the yellow, but that might just be because I'm not used to it

 

[CarrotPie]

As an attempt to for once not talk about the multiple delays to the programme like usual, what are your opinions on the originally intended black fronts for the 701? I've come across this collection of all the aventras in some sort of concept art stage which shows that design from the front instead of the side like previously seen.

Personally I prefer the yellow, but that might just be because I'm not used to it.

What's that in the middle? The long-talked-about bi-mode/battery version?

 

[OneTrackMinded]

What's that in the middle? The long-talked-about bi-mode/battery version?

Yes indeed. I don't think it'll ever happen

 

[Samzino]

What's that in the middle? The long-talked-about bi-mode/battery version?

Indeed the Bi mode aventra. Supposed at the time to do 125mph

BI-MODE AVENTRA DETAILS REVEALED

BOMBARDIER TARGETS DERBY DESIGN AT FORTHCOMING FRANCHISES ...

www.modernrailways.com

 

[Mikey C]

If TfL ever start running London Overground services on the Dudding Hill line, then Battery bi-mode Aventras would be ideal...

 

[Sam 76]

They would probably be closer to entering service, but with guard close the massive elephant in the room is crush loaded peak services and event days.

Platform infrastructure at stations with curves would need CCTV aided dispatch at the back cab for worst case scenario and also signal dispatch aides if signal sighting is unavailable. GOPs not being at opposite doors doesn't help for functionality either.

Not forgetting short platforms which can't be stopped at. (This is all worst case scenario of course) but all possible eventualities have to be covered.

These trains are not designed for a second member of staff onboard and SWR know that. Maybe that is causing more issues than any of us know.

When you look at the 777s they have got a clever system for closing the doors with the use of guards, be it in the form of a tap of a card from the guard and the driver then closes them. If Merseyrail can get around the issue why can’t SWR?

 

[norbitonflyer]

After the initial three, they seem to be being introduced at the rate of one a month. Will we see any more this side of Easter?

Apparently not - 043 on again today, and no services to Windsor over the Easter long weeknd

 

[DMckduck97]

When you look at the 777s they have got a clever system for closing the doors with the use of guards, be it in the form of a tap of a card from the guard and the driver then closes them. If Merseyrail can get around the issue why can’t SWR?

Merseyrail is a self contained network if I'm not mistaken? Much easier to manage operations if so.

There isn't really an issue, drivers have agreed to open and close, guards have also agreed to the changed method. So it does make you wonder why SWR aren't simply following agreements and getting these trains into service.

Guards may aswell close the doors if they are tapping a card to tell the drivers to close, don't see the performance benefit to that process.

 

[73128]

Today's 1025 cancelled - waiting for train preparation or completion of TOPS list (RTT)

 

[norbitonflyer]

Today's 1025 cancelled - waiting for train preparation or completion of TOPS list (RTT)

Whatever that means,

Instantly halving the fleet's MTIN figure...........

[EDIT 5U93 just left Wimbledon depot at 1153, so it looks like the problem has been fixed. (is this the unit that was to have done 2U91, or a replacement? - RTT is being coy again)]

 

[Snow1964]

There's no staff shortages currently trained on them, as far as I'm aware they are in a closed pool of crew who only work 701s or sit spare on a just in case basis.

Couple of short round trips, 5 of 7 days per week isn't even enough to fill one persons day, so what is the point of a pool of staff sitting spare.

Seems like a waste some money idea.

I might be naive, but if going to pay them to sit around, why not use the time to teach others, or sit in cab watch others practice driving them.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

no services to Windsor over the Easter long weeknd

If there is only a limited pool of trained drivers/guards, one shouldn't forget they (like many others) may have children etc, and during school holiday periods, they may well be looking for time off. At these times there will still be a minimum number (of bodies) required to be available for those Windsor services to run, but if bodies are short in number, being additional non WTT trains, they will be the first to be canned.

 

[norbitonflyer]

If there is only a limited pool of trained drivers/guards, one shouldn't forget they (like many others) may have children etc, and during school holiday periods, they may well be looking for time off. At these times there will still be a minimum number (of bodies) required to be available for those Windsor services to run, but if bodies are short in number, being additional non WTT trains, they will be the first to be canned.

No services to Windsor at all over the long weekend. RRBs in use.

Couple of short round trips, 5 of 7 days per week isn't even enough to fill one persons day, so what is the point of a pool of staff sitting spare.



I might be naive, but if going to pay them to sit around, why not use the time to teach others, or sit in cab watch others practice driving them.

There are other runs (training, mileage accumulation, don't know) - a 701 on a 5Q-- headcode has just arrived at Waterloo

 

[Big Jumby 74]

No services to Windsor at all over the long weekend. RRBs in use.

Ah, sorry, I don't keep up with what is actually going on day to day! My comment was just a theoretical possibility. On checking, that appears to be engineering works so it is what it is!

 

[OneTrackMinded]

...and that's a wrap on the aventra family. (picture

 

[Sam 76]

Merseyrail is a self contained network if I'm not mistaken? Much easier to manage operations if so.

There isn't really an issue, drivers have agreed to open and close, guards have also agreed to the changed method. So it does make you wonder why SWR aren't simply following agreements and getting these trains into service.

Guards may aswell close the doors if they are tapping a card to tell the drivers to close, don't see the performance benefit to that process.

It is indeed pretty self contained. And I didn’t realise there was a final agreement as I’ve only followed this from afar. It seems even more bonkers then that it’s not being carried out, I’d love to know what some of the thinking is there

 

[brooklynbound]

Today's 701 cancellation showed up the problem with naming them on the station announcements. I was waiting for a train at Richmond when I heard the recorded message proudly say Arterio then that it's cancelled because of "a problem in the depot" or something like that. Naming just the new trains makes them sound like a premium product but instead it's a cancelled product.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Today's 701 cancellation showed up the problem with naming them on the station announcements. I was waiting for a train at Richmond when I heard the recorded message proudly say Arterio then that it's cancelled because of "a problem in the depot" or something like that. Naming just the new trains makes them sound like a premium product but instead it's a cancelled product.

I'm not sure why but the thought of it, as you say, proudly announcing arterio and then saying cancelled is just so funny to me

 

[brad465]

...and that's a wrap on the aventra family.

Any chance they can all be repurposed as drivers and help expedite the introduction of the 701s?

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Any chance they can all be repurposed as drivers and help expedite the introduction of the 701s?

If only

 

[mullinsj08]

Any chance they can all be repurposed as drivers and help expedite the introduction of the 701s?

They'll have to fix all the 701s first!

 

[branny_rail465]

I did say they that I felt they were quick off the blocks!

They are quite fast from recent footage of GPS performance. I can attatch the file. They are also geared most certainly for 100mph.

A person I interract with on you tube posted their acceleration up to 57mph. This is also impressive considering they are 10 cars , and trains ranging from 10 to 12 cars have always neen power nerfed on third rail. The class 701s dont seem to be at all.

Class 701 acceleration GPS speed

 

[43066]

...and that's a wrap on the aventra family.

Aren’t they all quite likely to be made redundant imminently, as the factory has little further work? Must be a bittersweet moment .

 

[branny_rail465]

Not far off from what I got.

I decided that acceleration truly is measured from a standing start. Tractive effort is suppose to be higher usually from a standing start and start to curve off.

Class 701, starts moving at 3:54
First intermediate car passes Front of where driving car cab was at 3:54 @ 4:01

Train takes roughly 6.78 Seconds to Travel 20.8 Meters(One Driver Unit car Length of 701/0)

If v=2s/t - u then
((2x20.8)/6.78) - 0 = 6.13 m/s or 13.71mph

Must account for the intermediate cars being shorter than the driving cars by 0.9 meters so:

((2x(20.8-0.9))/6.78) - 0 = 5.87 m/s or 13.13mph

In Acceleration: 0.87(0.865 non rounded) m/s^2 from a standing start to clear one 20.8m Driving motor car length.

Can expect that number to reduce quite a bit as the train gets faster.

My recent post has GPS footage of the speed from a you tube video onboard the class 701s if that makes analysing it easier. According to an old source i read. The DC acceleration if peaked at around 0.7m/s² . Who knows though.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Aren’t they all quite likely to be made redundant imminently, as the factory has little further work? Must be a bittersweet moment .

It's all part of the plan? Never introduce a train which works perfectly. So now these guys can go back and rectify it.

 

[branny_rail465]

It's all part of the plan? Never introduce a train which works perfectly. So now these guys can go back and rectify it.

nah apparently derby is all out of works until mid 2025 - 2026. And i think they dont have money to keep employees/people around anymore. So they may close, the economy has really had an impact for sure.

 

[D365]

It's all part of the plan? Never introduce a train which works perfectly. So now these guys can go back and rectify it.

Nope. The rectification works are, for the most part, being done elsewhere.

 

[Dan G]

They are quite fast from recent footage of GPS performance. I can attatch the file. They are also geared most certainly for 100mph.

A person I interract with on you tube posted their acceleration up to 57mph. This is also impressive considering they are 10 cars , and trains ranging from 10 to 12 cars have always neen power nerfed on third rail. The class 701s dont seem to be at all.

Class 701 acceleration GPS speed

Lightweight bogies + lightweight car bodies = stellar performance!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Slightly OT. 2nd April sees an empty CS move booked from Wimbledon to Marchwood. It's marked as GBRf hauled, so potentially it's a 701 drag?

(2nd April): TRUST activated in the early hours of today; but the booked departure hasn't run.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

My recent post has GPS footage of the speed from a you tube video onboard the class 701s if that makes analysing it easier. According to an old source i read. The DC acceleration if peaked at around 0.7m/s² . Who knows though.

Your GPS footage isn't something you should rely on for acceleration. If you watch it, occasionally the numbers will just randomly jump or go faster to catch up, that's because the accuracy of GPS is very varied. Your method is much better for estimated of how long it takes the unit to reach a certain speed. The method the other person used is likely going to provide a more accurate result for acceleration.