Class 707 - SWT: Introduction into service

[Goldfish62]

I read somewhere that FMTR don't want trains with no toilets, so that justifies one reason for them wanting to ditch the 707s (unless they get the toilets retro fitted), and I also assume that means the 458s will get the push too, as the majority of those may as well have no toilets.

It's been known fact for a while now that both the 458s and the 707s are going. The 458s have two toilets per unit. It is just that they don't work well so are often locked out of use.

The requirement for all trains to have toilets (except IoW) is a franchise commitment that formed part of the winning bid.

 

[Uzair]

Heard that they may not enter service at all as the new franchise starts soon and they've already got new trains on order.

Which will not be delivered for another 2 years.

Who actually owns the 707s? Doesn't seem to be Porterbook or Eversholt. The Angel Trains website isn't working.

 

[Mordac]

Which will not be delivered for another 2 years.

Who actually owns the 707s? Doesn't seem to be Porterbook or Eversholt. The Angel Trains website isn't working.

P5 says it's Angel.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Which will not be delivered for another 2 years.

Who actually owns the 707s? Doesn't seem to be Porterbook or Eversholt. The Angel Trains website isn't working.

P5 says it's Angel.

They're not listed on the Angel trains website as being owned by them. Maybe they'll only be listed once they start to be formally handed over by Siemens. Are they still technically owned by Siemens at this point?

 

[D365]

They're not listed on the Angel trains website as being owned by them. Maybe they'll only be listed once they start to be formally handed over by Siemens. Are they still technically owned by Siemens at this point?

Either way they will be owned by Angel Trains once each unit is handed over.

Don't think that the website has been updated this year as the Class 317s are still shown as being operated by Great Northern.

 

[Bigfoot]

From one of the drivers involved with the test runs angel are not accepting them as yet due to faults. Therfore still Siemens until accepted by angel to then lease to swt.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

From one of the drivers involved with the test runs angel are not accepting them as yet due to faults. Therfore still Siemens until accepted by angel to then leave to swt.

Did they say whether the faults are similar or the same to those being experienced with the 700s?

 

[Bigfoot]

Certainly seems to be tms related from what he said. Though I'm sure there are other issues/niggles.

 

[Goldfish62]

Seems like time is running out for them to ever enter service with SWT now, given that there's just five weeks of normal services left for the franchise. The last thing anyone will want is trains prone to teething troubles failing during the Waterloo works.

 

[spark001uk]

That was a waste of SWT paint then.

 

[infobleep]

Surely if they are in a position to enter service and would provide capacity increases, even if just for a short time whilst the other trains are being built, then they would want to introduce them?

 

[spark001uk]

Surely if they are in a position to enter service and would provide capacity increases, even if just for a short time whilst the other trains are being built, then they would want to introduce them?

They're not ready though.

They could put them into service right now, but what happens when one of them has a tantrum and sits down outside Waterloo in the middle of rush hour and blocks traffic? Thousands in fines and reimbursed fares.

 

[Feathers44]

That was a waste of SWT paint then.

Hindsight is wonderful, isn't it?

 

[Matt Taylor]

My purely personal opinion is that they won't enter service until after First have taken over, they've been testing for almost half a year already and progress appears to be very slow.

 

[BRX]

Are deliveries of the 707s from the continent effectively on hold, for now, then?

 

[Pumbaa]

Certainly seems to be tms related from what he said. Though I'm sure there are other issues/niggles.

That's putting it lightly...

 

[Marklund]

Have they tried switching it off and on again yet?

 

[Uzair]

Matt Taylor, would you say that progress is even slower with the 707s due to the fact that all stakeholders now know that they will not be on SWT/SWR network for long at all? So there is not really an urge to get them into service, if you understand what I mean?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

In any case I wouldn't be surprised if they never entered service and get sent back to Siemens

 

[cjmillsnun]

In any case I wouldn't be surprised if they never entered service and get sent back to Siemens

I doubt they will go back to Siemens. That would involve the ROSCO rejecting them. My guess is that they won't enter service and will sit in a siding after they commissioning runs until Angel manage to lease them to another TOC.

 

[randompixel]

I doubt they will go back to Siemens. That would involve the ROSCO rejecting them. My guess is that they won't enter service and will sit in a siding after they commissioning runs until Angel manage to lease them to another TOC.

The new Bombardier trains aren't due for another couple of years yet. Would a TOC really just spite it's customers by mothballing trains until then when it could extend and cascade? It seems unlikely.

 

[Marklund]

The new Bombardier trains aren't due for another couple of years yet. Would a TOC really just spite it's customers by mothballing trains until then when it could extend and cascade? It seems unlikely.

Conversely, and playing devils advocate, why would the new TOC want to risk using a product it doesn't want, and go to the expense of training for and commissioning them, with the inherent issues the 700 series seem to be having?

There are third rail units sitting spare at this very moment...

 

[TEW]

707s are needed to allow stock cascades for 10-coach services to Reading and on Main Suburban services. SWT have been widely publicising this benefit for a while now, and with the Main Suburban it is the reason for the major disruption this Summer. If First/MTR didn't then go through with a plans it would be a PR disaster, which I'm sure is something they want to avoid so soon in the new franchise.

 

[Midmat]

Latest SWT Twitter session suggested that they hoped them to be in service in September but answer to another question on the subject suggested they hoped to have at least one in service before then. So not really clear other than main rollout isn't going to happen for another few months. Probably.

https://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/globalassets/contact-and-help/tell-us/19June2017

 

[317 forever]

Matt Taylor, would you say that progress is even slower with the 707s due to the fact that all stakeholders now know that they will not be on SWT/SWR network for long at all? So there is not really an urge to get them into service, if you understand what I mean?

It would reduce the expense of short-term crew training on the type if they are not introduced on the South West franchise after all.

Maybe the DfT could stipulate that the winner of the South Eastern franchise inherits the class 707s?

 

[AlexNL]

Maybe the DfT could stipulate that the winner of the South Eastern franchise inherits the class 707s?

Didn't DfT stop dictating which rolling stock to use not too long ago, leading to -among others- full fleet replacement on Greater Anglia and new trains on the Moorgate routes?

The past few years more ROSCOs have entered the UK rail market when franchises were renewed. If DfT were still pulling the fleet assignment strings, I think it would have been unlikely for that to happen.

 

[ScotGG]

It would reduce the expense of short-term crew training on the type if they are not introduced on the South West franchise after all.

Maybe the DfT could stipulate that the winner of the South Eastern franchise inherits the class 707s?

They probably will, and as said a few times, its pretty stupid to do so with 5 car trains for a Network that should be going 8 car (for Victoria services) or 12 car for Charing Cross and Cannon Street.

 

[infobleep]

They're not ready though.

They could put them into service right now, but what happens when one of them has a tantrum and sits down outside Waterloo in the middle of rush hour and blocks traffic? Thousands in fines and reimbursed fares.

But surely it won't take until Dec 2018 for them to be ready or the point the new trains arrive for the First / MTR franchise?

On a slightly OT humorous note, I did wonder if there would be a 707 farewell tour!

 

[MatthewRead]

But surely it won't take until Dec 2018 for them to be ready or the point the new trains arrive for the First / MTR franchise?

On a slightly OT humorous note, I did wonder if there would be a 707 farewell tour!

Your funny

 

[Wivenswold]

Great, I'll sign up for the Farewell Tour. Visiting all the familiar haunts of the class. Sidings mainly.