Class 710 LO

[Bald Rick]

I wouldn't write the idea off so quickly. Esp with STAR due to start, LO I would imagine to eventually extend Stratford services in the near future northbound too..

1) you’ll have to trust me here, it wont work. There’s no platforms at Liverpool St to borrow, because those being vacated aren’t long enough for trains off the main. And even if they were, you would have to line up a path off the WAML fasts at exactly the same time as both an up and a down gap on the mains, which means that these latter two have to line up perfectly with each other, and a gap on both the up and down electric. It would make the Red Arrows look uncoordinated.

2) how will LO extend services northbound?

 

[MrPIC]

I think he means extending the NLL services along the TM and LVR to terminate at Meridian Water.

 

[Bald Rick]

I think he means extending the NLL services along the TM and LVR to terminate at Meridian Water.

That’s what I thought; but how? The infrastructure isn’t there, and the timetable is already at capacity in the peak.

 

[MrPIC]

Well it would be technically possible sure, NLL trains are entirely capable of terminating in platforms 11/12 at Stratford and so there's no reason why they couldn't carry along through Lea Bridge and onto the LVR. As for any reality of it happening, I doubt this also.

 

[20atthemagnet]

What, both morning and evening? There used to be a 4-car AM peak only and an 8 car both AM and PM peak. Are they working different trains now post timetable change?

No they work the same trains. As you pointed out...2 morning rounds...now both 4 cars (one of which goes ECS to chingford and comes back again to do a evening circuit as a 4 car) As you pointed out this is the one that is now booked a 4 that was previously 8. Unsure if the stoping patterns have changed but more than likely.

 

[700007]

No they work the same trains. As you pointed out...2 morning rounds...now both 4 cars (one of which goes ECS to chingford and comes back again to do a evening circuit as a 4 car) As you pointed out this is the one that is now booked a 4 that was previously 8. Unsure if the stoping patterns have changed but more than likely.

Surely must have changed because that train was otherwise manic - the 1722 to Cheshunt via Seven Sisters off London Liverpool Street. I can't imagine them getting away with it being a 4.

 

[Bald Rick]

Well it would be technically possible sure, NLL trains are entirely capable of terminating in platforms 11/12 at Stratford and so there's no reason why they couldn't carry along through Lea Bridge and onto the LVR. As for any reality of it happening, I doubt this also.

Technically capable yes, but not without decimating the GEML peak service!

 

[delticdave]

Correct. AIUI the contract with Bombardier includes options both for more complete trains and also extra cars for lengthening existing trains. How valid those options remain is anyone's guess. I think the last I read about possible enhancement on the GOBLIN is that TfL's longer term preference was to go for enhanced frequency with 4 car units. Lengthening is probably a very long way off on the GOBLIN because of the capital cost of dealing with the known difficult locations. The one location that may become troublesome, other than Barking, is Blackhorse Road (BHO) where the volume of interchange / waiting passengers causes congestion. IMO an opportunity was missed during the blockades to modestly widen the platforms at Blackhorse Road and possibly attend to the footbridge's width and that of the stairs. If peak traffic grows again once the service has stabilised then BHO will be a problem.

AFAIK some provision was made during the blockade for 5-car trains on the Goblin, if only re. signal locations. Back in the day the line could cope with 2 of the usual St. Pancras 3-car non-corridor sets + steam loco. The the replacement DMU service was always intended to be operated by the 4-car BedPan DHMUs, but most trains were formed of a pair of 2-car DMUs, drafted in from elsewhere. Not a great success though, they were seriously underpowered (when compared with the BedPan units) & couldn't keep to the new schedules.

 

[MK Tom]

Are the 710s out today on Goblin services?

 

[Milo T.K]

Are the 710s out today on Goblin services?

Yes they are in service today

 

[theking]

One failed and is missing

 

[superalbs]

One failed and is missing

Why and how is it missing?

 

[Alfie1014]

Second one 710269 failed, all turfed before 12:48 departure at Barking, then train departed empty though now appears to be running in service 12 late though.l!

 

[class387]

Managed to get on 710269 before it failed today. Some impressions:

• The train is very bright and airy, without being too clinical like the 700s, which was nice to see.
• The seats are very firm, though supportive. I still dislike the idea of all longitudinal seats. It's fine on the Goblin and Watford DC, but I think it will be received very poorly on the lines from Liverpool Street.
• Personally I do not find the interior as tasteful as the 345s, and the orange and green moquette especially displeasing.
• The electronic advert screens seem like a good idea, though both them and the PIS was blank for the entire journey.
• The ride is smooth and quiet, on par with a 378, but not as quiet as a 345.

Overall, they seem like good trains for the shorter Overground lines, but nothing special and certainly not worth the 12 months+ wait for them.

 

[bluegoblin7]

269 back in service for c1800. Very impressed with the units on first viewing.

 

[AlanFry1]

Managed to get on 710269 before it failed today. Some impressions:

• The train is very bright and airy, without being too clinical like the 700s, which was nice to see.
• The seats are very firm, though supportive. I still dislike the idea of all longitudinal seats. It's fine on the Goblin and Watford DC, but I think it will be received very poorly on the lines from Liverpool Street.
• Personally I do not find the interior as tasteful as the 345s, and the orange and green moquette especially displeasing.
• The electronic advert screens seem like a good idea, though both them and the PIS was blank for the entire journey.
• The ride is smooth and quiet, on par with a 378, but not as quiet as a 345.

Overall, they seem like good trains for the shorter Overground lines, but nothing special and certainly not worth the 12 months+ wait for them.

I thought the Lea Lines were getting transverse seating?

 

[superalbs]

I thought the Lea Lines were getting transverse seating?

Such was the plan, but not anymore I believe!

 

[samuelmorris]

I thought the Lea Lines were getting transverse seating?

Originally yes, but that was removed a while back in favour of all-longitudinal.

 

[Mikey C]

Originally yes, but that was removed a while back in favour of all-longitudinal.

A poor decision to me, when the 345s and S8s have some transverse seats, as will the 717s which operate relatively similar routes into Moorgate

 

[MatthewRead]

A poor decision to me, when the 345s and S8s have some transverse seats, as will the 717s which operate relatively similar routes into Moorgate

The S7's were supposed to have mixed seating as well but that was dropped.

 

[samuelmorris]

A poor decision to me, when the 345s and S8s have some transverse seats, as will the 717s which operate relatively similar routes into Moorgate

I believe the intention is for maximum crush loading capacity since no increase in the number of units is being offered (31 315/317s replaced with 31 710s)

 

[JaJaWa]

A poor decision to me, when the 345s and S8s have some transverse seats, as will the 717s which operate relatively similar routes into Moorgate

Would the 717s be needing longitudinal seating had it been added to the Tube map?

 

[hwl]

Would the 717s be needing longitudinal seating had it been added to the Tube map?

Yep. I I suspect Crossirl opneing will have an impact on loadings too.
The 700 contract has the requirement to be able to retro fit longitudinal seating easily too at some point in the future.

 

[Mikey C]

Would the 717s be needing longitudinal seating had it been added to the Tube map?

With the limited length of the services into Moorgate (6 cars) if anything that line may have more issues in the future than the Liverpool Street lines...

The S7's were supposed to have mixed seating as well but that was dropped.

To me it's correct that S7s have all longitudinal seating

 

[swt_passenger]

Which is the longer route between LO out of Liverpool St, or LO to Watford Junction? The latter is alleged earlier to be ok for longitudinal seating, but seems to be the longest route?

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought the Lea Lines were getting transverse seating?

The longitudinal seating decision was made a while back, and reported in Modern Railways magazine at the end of 2017. It was discussed in post #141 of this thread onwards...

 

[MrPIC]

Technically capable yes, but not without decimating the GEML peak service!

Well, not so sure about that, it might hold up some freightliners, and some sets of cars coming out/in to/from Orient Way but wouldn't destroy the GE at all. If anything the WAML services terminating in 11/12 at Stratford would be the ones to be disrupted most.

 

[Af317]

Today's 710s:
710261 10:48 Barking to Gospel Oak
710262 11:18 Barking to Gospel Oak

 

[BJames]

Which is the longer route between LO out of Liverpool St, or LO to Watford Junction? The latter is alleged earlier to be ok for longitudinal seating, but seems to be the longest route?

Yes the LO to Watford Junction route is definitely longer - IIRC takes roughly 45-50 minutes as opposed to 33 minutes to Enfield and 38 minutes to Cheshunt.

 

[hwl]

Well, not so sure about that, it might hold up some freightliners, and some sets of cars coming out/in to/from Orient Way but wouldn't destroy the GE at all. If anything the WAML services terminating in 11/12 at Stratford would be the ones to be disrupted most.

It stops P10A being used in the peaks for Down fast services as P11 and P10A share the same track (and used in opposite directions) west of the platforms. Thus it destroys the GEML peak service...