Class 710 LO

[class387]

Such as what?

313122, 313123 and 313134 on Great Northern still have pretty much the NSE interior with low back seats, yellow grab poles etc.

 

[Wivenswold]

Got to say that the luxury given to LO passengers travelling on 317s was never going to last.

I knew my bit of information would start several pages of debate from the "Interior design and seat comfort" crew, so I apologise to all those, like me, who visit this thread to get news.

 

[class387]

Got to say that the luxury given to LO passengers travelling on 317s was never going to last.

I knew my bit of information would start several pages of debate from the "Interior design and seat comfort" crew, so I apologise to all those, like me, who visit this thread to get news.

The 317/7s are just as unsuitable for these services as the new Aventras are. I also was not criticising the comfort of the seats - I quite like the firm longitudinal seats in the 345s as far as longitudinal seats go. My main issue is the decreased seated capacity and the fact that longitudinal layouts are uncomfortable in themselves.

 

[delt1c]

315s are IMO the worst units out there so I probably would prefer any other rail unit!

What is your travelling experience on 315's. As an ex commuter on WA services for many years I can say they were excellent units, yes the seats are low back but not uncomfortable for the length of journeys they operated. Also with the low back seats they could load and unload very quickly, just check at Tottenham Hale or Seven Sisters. In all the years i used them i never experienced a single failure and in the leaf fall season with 2 motor cars they coped well. They are the modern 4SUB.

 

[87015]

Tottenham's new stadium means the need is for people eaters and nothing else presumably? Appears it will be "interesting" before the 710 fleet gets in when the stadium opens given how the existing setup barely coped with a stadium half the size!

 

[southern442]

The interior of the aventra is basically going to be a 315 except the seats are longitudinal, so don't complain.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Tottenham's new stadium means the need is for people eaters and nothing else presumably? Appears it will be "interesting" before the 710 fleet gets in when the stadium opens given how the existing setup barely coped with a stadium half the size!

Ooh, not long now! I forgot the 710s will serve White Hart Lane. Might end up on them quite a bit then.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

313122, 313123 and 313134 on Great Northern still have pretty much the NSE interior with low back seats, yellow grab poles etc.

View attachment 40767

Still looks better than a TFL rail 315 interior!

 

[prod_pep]

What is your travelling experience on 315's. As an ex commuter on WA services for many years I can say they were excellent units, yes the seats are low back but not uncomfortable for the length of journeys they operated. Also with the low back seats they could load and unload very quickly, just check at Tottenham Hale or Seven Sisters. In all the years i used them i never experienced a single failure and in the leaf fall season with 2 motor cars they coped well. They are the modern 4SUB.

Hear, hear. The 315s are well suited to the West Anglia locals.

I'm amazed they're going for full longitudinal on the replacements. Outside peak times, I find you rarely have to stand on the WA services, apart from perhaps the short Seven Sisters to Edmonton Green section in the shoulder peak. Most of the seats are often taken though so reducing that number significantly seems to be a retrograde step.

The North London routes were a different matter when the 313s were replaced by 378s. It had been painfully obvious for years that massive capacity improvements were needed on those lines. I've used the WA locals a few times in the height of the peaks and the overcrowding doesn't seem anything like as bad as the NLL used to be.

 

[Elecman]

315s are IMO the worst units out there so I probably would prefer any other rail unit!

You can have 142s then

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You can have 142s then

I prefer those so fine.

 

[class387]

I prefer those so fine.

What is it exactly about 315s that you hate so much? I knowed you mentioned the TfL Rail interior earlier - can you elaborate?

 

[bastien]

I knew my bit of information would start several pages of debate from the "Interior design and seat comfort" crew, so I apologise to all those, like me, who visit this thread to get news.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: This place needs a separate Seating/interiors sub-forum. I'm sure cushion moaning has tipped past the 50% of new posts mark this last week.

 

[AlanFry1]

Tottenham's new stadium means the need is for people eaters and nothing else presumably? Appears it will be "interesting" before the 710 fleet gets in when the stadium opens given how the existing setup barely coped with a stadium half the size!

Not to forget the Tottenham North Regeneration and Edmonton regeneration (poss on hold)...

 

[dp21]

Latest edition of MR said that as of mid november the 8th unit was starting construction. Anyone know how many have been finished and their whereabouts?

 

[AlanFry1]

TFL posted a tweet yesterday about the GOBLIN line, and these are due to be rolled across the network in Spring... Not really sure what they mean by 'Spring'

 

[D365]

Not sure about unit numbers but I hear testing will begin shortly.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Not sure about unit numbers but I hear testing will begin shortly.

Presumably this is testing on the LO lines as according to post #56 one was being tested at Derby at the start of November.

 

[87015]

Presumably this is testing on the LO lines as according to post #56 one was being tested at Derby at the start of November.

The unit has been sent to Old Dalby. Not due to arrive at Willesden for a few months yet.

 

[AlanFry1]

The unit has been sent to Old Dalby. Not due to arrive at Willesden for a few months yet.

More time with broken 315s and 317s then...

 

[bramling]

The original plan was for all S stock to have the S8 layout. The change was to provide the longitudinal layout on all S7. There was never a step differentiating H&C/Circle would be different from District. S7 has always been intended to be a homogeneous fleet.

I thought the original plan was for all S stock to be longitudinal. I’m sure it was the case the S8s were changed when it was realised resignalling and thus extra services were going to be delayed. Furthermore, I’m sure I remember this being envisaged as a temporary arrangement, although I can’t see them ever changing now.

I agree with the general theme that WA should be getting at least some transverse seating. The overcrowding on the North London Line and associated routes stems from short train lengths and comparatively low frequencies by London standards. WA doesn’t suffer nearly as much from these limitations, so a more comfortable interior should be the objective.

 

[Wivenswold]

I thought the original plan was for all S stock to be longitudinal. I’m sure it was the case the S8s were changed when it was realised resignalling and thus extra services were going to be delayed. Furthermore, I’m sure I remember this being envisaged as a temporary arrangement, although I can’t see them ever changing now.

I agree with the general theme that WA should be getting at least some transverse seating. The overcrowding on the North London Line and associated routes stems from short train lengths and comparatively low frequencies by London standards. WA doesn’t suffer nearly as much from these limitations, so a more comfortable interior should be the objective.

I think you may be right about the seating on the S8 units Bramling. If you're registered on the excellent District Dave forum, someone may know there.

 

[plcd1]

Hear, hear. The 315s are well suited to the West Anglia locals.

I'm amazed they're going for full longitudinal on the replacements. Outside peak times, I find you rarely have to stand on the WA services, apart from perhaps the short Seven Sisters to Edmonton Green section in the shoulder peak. Most of the seats are often taken though so reducing that number significantly seems to be a retrograde step.

The North London routes were a different matter when the 313s were replaced by 378s. It had been painfully obvious for years that massive capacity improvements were needed on those lines. I've used the WA locals a few times in the height of the peaks and the overcrowding doesn't seem anything like as bad as the NLL used to be.

I may be out of date but I thought the West Anglia 710s were going to have a mixed internal seating configuration like S8s. Those for the GOBLIN and Watford DC are all longitudinal. I guess it's possible it's changed but I am sure the difference was highlighted in one of those Twitter sessions that the old LOROL management used to do. Arriva seem too scared to take to the "airwaves".

I've used the 315s almost since they started on the Chingford line and the slam doors before them. I may not be the most frequent user but I've never had an issue with them. They don't break down and just keep plodding away. The only issue was loose seat cushions and TfL seem to have fixed that since they took over. Makes me wonder why WAGN / One / Abellio Greater Anglia couldn't manage the same.

 

[hwl]

I may be out of date but I thought the West Anglia 710s were going to have a mixed internal seating configuration like S8s. Those for the GOBLIN and Watford DC are all longitudinal. I guess it's possible it's changed but I am sure the difference was highlighted in one of those Twitter sessions that the old LOROL management used to do. Arriva seem too scared to take to the "airwaves".

I've used the 315s almost since they started on the Chingford line and the slam doors before them. I may not be the most frequent user but I've never had an issue with them. They don't break down and just keep plodding away. The only issue was loose seat cushions and TfL seem to have fixed that since they took over. Makes me wonder why WAGN / One / Abellio Greater Anglia couldn't manage the same.

News of the change drifted out just before Christmas (probably a page or 2 back). With the extra stock ordered and the revised operational plans, two seating layouts no longer made sense.

 

[100andthirty]

I thought the original plan was for all S stock to be longitudinal. I’m sure it was the case the S8s were changed when it was realised resignalling and thus extra services were going to be delayed. Furthermore, I’m sure I remember this being envisaged as a temporary arrangement, although I can’t see them ever changing now.

I agree with the general theme that WA should be getting at least some transverse seating. The overcrowding on the North London Line and associated routes stems from short train lengths and comparatively low frequencies by London standards. WA doesn’t suffer nearly as much from these limitations, so a more comfortable interior should be the objective.

Confirming the S8/S7 post wasn't opinion, the change was to the S7 layout inspired by American influence which thought 'subways' should have longitudinal seats. The decision wasn't influenced by signalling delays.

 

[AlanFry1]

Hear, hear. The 315s are well suited to the West Anglia locals.

I'm amazed they're going for full longitudinal on the replacements. Outside peak times, I find you rarely have to stand on the WA services, apart from perhaps the short Seven Sisters to Edmonton Green section in the shoulder peak. Most of the seats are often taken though so reducing that number significantly seems to be a retrograde step.

The North London routes were a different matter when the 313s were replaced by 378s. It had been painfully obvious for years that massive capacity improvements were needed on those lines. I've used the WA locals a few times in the height of the peaks and the overcrowding doesn't seem anything like as bad as the NLL used to be.

I would completely disagree. In the morning rush hour, If the 7:26 from Edmonton Green GA is late, and causes the 7:29 LO to be late, which happens 3/5 days a week, many passangers from Silver St, WHL must wait to board the train for the 7:36/7:38 services. This is leading to the stations to be closed frequently due to overcrowding.

Trains in the off peak now are full and standing between Cambridge Heath-Edmonton Green, and Bethnal Green-Wood Street. Overcrowding is a severe problem. Possibly not full and standing on the first and last few services, but definitely full and standing everywhere else.

The only WA services not busy IMO would be the Cambridge stoppers and the Hertford East services, both in peak and off peak.

 

[theking]

Not surprised at the west anglia lines being all longitudinal.

Tfl future proofing them as all overground routes have seen massive passenger increases.
Easier to have one interior across the whole 710 fleet.

 

[Mikey C]

Not surprised at the west anglia lines being all longitudinal.

Tfl future proofing them as all overground routes have seen massive passenger increases.
Easier to have one interior across the whole 710 fleet.

But then surely the West Anglia lines are a bit different, they're mainly commuter lines, rather than previously underused radial routes. I doubt there's much latent demand there, such that numbers will now rocket under TfL (as opposed to steadily increasing like the other commuter routes)

 

[prod_pep]

Trains in the off peak now are full and standing between Cambridge Heath-Edmonton Green, and Bethnal Green-Wood Street. Overcrowding is a severe problem. Possibly not full and standing on the first and last few services, but definitely full and standing everywhere else.

My own observations contradict this. Apart from the aforementioned Seven Sisters - Edmonton Green section, standing outside peak times is quite rare. These are busy services but far from always full and standing off-peak. In fact, you do get some near-empty services on both the Seven Sisters and Chingford routes between the peaks.

The only WA services not busy IMO would be the Cambridge stoppers and the Hertford East services, both in peak and off peak.

Disagree with this: both routes are crowded during peak times.

 

[AlanFry1]

My own observations contradict this. Apart from the aforementioned Seven Sisters - Edmonton Green section, standing outside peak times is quite rare. These are busy services but far from always full and standing off-peak. In fact, you do get some near-empty services on both the Seven Sisters and Chingford routes between the peaks.



Disagree with this: both routes are crowded during peak times.

When did you last use the line? I've not managed to get a seat from White Hart Lane in about 4 years unless it's a match day only service.