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Class 710 LO

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D365

D365

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JonathanH said:
I seem to find that the charging points in 710s send such insufficient and intermittent current that they don't really charge the battery (although the ones at the driving cab ends are a bit better than the ones at the other coach ends). Same with 230s/484s.
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Without naming names; some 110V:5V power converters are not as good as their competition!
 
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JonathanH

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There is a suggestion elsewhere (ukmodernemu group) that 710379 was delivered to Ilford by road last week. However, transporting a 5-car unit by road seems to be a bit different to moving something shorter. Do the haulage firms have the capability to move five carriages at once? What need is there to get 710379 to Ilford rather than Willesden?
 
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Defiance149

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JonathanH said:
There is a suggestion elsewhere (ukmodernemu group) that 710379 was delivered to Ilford by road last week. However, transporting a 5-car unit by road seems to be a bit different to moving something shorter. Do the haulage firms have the capability to move five carriages at once? What need is there to get 710379 to Ilford rather than Willesden?
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You can't road into Willesden TMD for one, low bridge. It would be moved as five separate cars not in one go.
 
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Peter Sarf

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JonathanH said:
There is a suggestion elsewhere (ukmodernemu group) that 710379 was delivered to Ilford by road last week. However, transporting a 5-car unit by road seems to be a bit different to moving something shorter. Do the haulage firms have the capability to move five carriages at once? What need is there to get 710379 to Ilford rather than Willesden?
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Does anyone know if 710379 or any other of the last four 710s has recently been delivered ?.
 
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JonathanH

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With the Barking Riverside extension having opened now, it is noticeable that 710270 hasn't entered service.

I guess this can be explained with 710124 returning to work on the West Anglia route and that rendering the cover 710/2 free together with the continued use of 710376-378 on the Watford DC line.

I guess the question is whether the extra 378 deployment on the East London Line and backfill with 710/3s will ever happen now. However, without that, there appears no trigger for 710270/374/375/379 to ever enter service.
 
bluegoblin7

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Not so sure the cover 710/2 has gone back - 710260+710262 both running together on West Anglia yesterday (20/07) evening.
 
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Roger B

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JonathanH said:
With the Barking Riverside extension having opened now, it is noticeable that 710270 hasn't entered service.

I guess this can be explained with 710124 returning to work on the West Anglia route and that rendering the cover 710/2 free together with the continued use of 710376-378 on the Watford DC line.

I guess the question is whether the extra 378 deployment on the East London Line and backfill with 710/3s will ever happen now. However, without that, there appears no trigger for 710270/374/375/379 to ever enter service.
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The 710s are owned by Rail for London, who are wholly owned by Transport Trading Limited, which is a subsidiary company of TfL. Presumably Rail for London are obliged via the contract with Bombardier / Alstom to complete payment for the units, if not already done so, and to pay for ongoing costs of ownership - eg storage, maintenance, etc.

So you'd think that Rail for London / TfL would want to see them put into service, in order to to get a return on their investment, and to minimise ongoing costs not covered by income - eg for storage - especially if they're in 'warm' storage. In extremis, I suppose they could explore selling them - though whether another TOC would want a small fleet of non-standard units is pretty questionnable. Either way though, these costs are probably a drop in the ocean within the overall scheme of TfL's funding, and there's no shareholders banging the table demanding action, which may explain the drift.

Perhaps (a bit speculative - sorry mods), London Overground are awaiting post-pandemic travelling patterns to stabilise, feeding into a recast of London Overground's timetables and a more definite understanding of the number of units required? This could also be informed by completion of any aspirational infrastructure enhancements being completed, eg to support more frequent services in certain sections.
 
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sharpley

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Peter Sarf

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bluegoblin7 said:
Not so sure the cover 710/2 has gone back - 710260+710262 both running together on West Anglia yesterday (20/07) evening.
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With three of the 710/3s already in London they can cover the two 710/2 that are loaned to West Anglia.
Roger B said:
The 710s are owned by Rail for London, who are wholly owned by Transport Trading Limited, which is a subsidiary company of TfL. Presumably Rail for London are obliged via the contract with Bombardier / Alstom to complete payment for the units, if not already done so, and to pay for ongoing costs of ownership - eg storage, maintenance, etc.

So you'd think that Rail for London / TfL would want to see them put into service, in order to to get a return on their investment, and to minimise ongoing costs not covered by income - eg for storage - especially if they're in 'warm' storage. In extremis, I suppose they could explore selling them - though whether another TOC would want a small fleet of non-standard units is pretty questionnable. Either way though, these costs are probably a drop in the ocean within the overall scheme of TfL's funding, and there's no shareholders banging the table demanding action, which may explain the drift.

Perhaps (a bit speculative - sorry mods), London Overground are awaiting post-pandemic travelling patterns to stabilise, feeding into a recast of London Overground's timetables and a more definite understanding of the number of units required? This could also be informed by completion of any aspirational infrastructure enhancements being completed, eg to support more frequent services in certain sections.
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From what I have read the 5car 710/3s are (eventually/ordered) for the North London Line to allow six (six aiui ?) 5car 378s to move to the East London line. I wonder if there is space to keep the 710/3s in London yet ?. Or space to keep the six cascadable 378s nearer the East London line ?. Not that there must be much space nearer to Derby !.
Peter Mugridge said:
Is that two of the remaining four 710s being prepared to be tripped to Willedsen on delivery?
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Looks to be 710374 yesterday (on 25/07/2022) followed by 710375 today (on 26/07/2022) have moved to Derby. A step closer to London ?.

Not sure one should hold ones breath though.
 
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Electrojuniper

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as far as I am aware 710379 is in Ilford Depot. I believe the project is closer in bringing the remaining units into service.
 
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Peter Sarf

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Below from 21/07/2022
JonathanH said:
There is a suggestion elsewhere (ukmodernemu group) that 710379 was delivered to Ilford by road last week. However, transporting a 5-car unit by road seems to be a bit different to moving something shorter. Do the haulage firms have the capability to move five carriages at once? What need is there to get 710379 to Ilford rather than Willesden?
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Below from 29/07/2022
Electrojuniper said:
as far as I am aware 710379 is in Ilford Depot. I believe the project is closer in bringing the remaining units into service.
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From those two reports it seems likely 710379 has indeed made it to London.

From other reports it looks like 710374 & 710375 might be being prepared for delivery.

Can anyone add/prove anything ?.
 
Mikey C

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On the Lea Valley line mid afternoon today, and I was surprised that all the 710s I saw (including those passing through Hackney Downs) were 8 car, which seems generous, especially when the "orbital" services are restricted to 4 or 5 cars.
 
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swt_passenger

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Mikey C said:
On the Lea Valley line mid afternoon today, and I was surprised that all the 710s I saw (including those passing through Hackney Downs) were 8 car, which seems generous, especially when the "orbital" services are restricted to 4 or 5 cars.
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I think it’s always been like that since TFL took over the original LO network ie the ELL, NLL, WLL, DC lines were all constrained by some existing platform lengths to 4 then eventually 5 car trains. The former underground part of the ELL being a key reason for short trains.

The GOBLIN EMU service came later but is still only 4 car I believe due to a majority of short platform lengths. But Liverpool St services were a takeover of an existing 8 car railway, so had to be 8 car capable from the start?
 
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Wolfie

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swt_passenger said:
I think it’s always been like that since TFL took over the original LO network ie the ELL, NLL, WLL, DC lines were all constrained by some existing platform lengths to 4 then eventually 5 car trains. The former underground part of the ELL being a key reason for short trains.

The GOBLIN EMU service came later but is still only 4 car I believe due to a majority of short platform lengths. But Liverpool St services were a takeover of an existing 8 car railway, so had to be 8 car capable from the start?
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It's been stated before that 378s can't, due to software constraints, be longer than 5 cars.
 
Mikey C

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swt_passenger said:
I think it’s always been like that since TFL took over the original LO network ie the ELL, NLL, WLL, DC lines were all constrained by some existing platform lengths to 4 then eventually 5 car trains. The former underground part of the ELL being a key reason for short trains.

The GOBLIN EMU service came later but is still only 4 car I believe due to a majority of short platform lengths. But Liverpool St services were a takeover of an existing 8 car railway, so had to be 8 car capable from the start?
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8 cars in rush hour yes, but I'm pretty sure that previously they ran 4 cars off peak.
 
bluegoblin7

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Predominately 4 cars still operate on the West Anglia routes off peak, although Monday to Friday this can seem like a very short period due to the coupling/uncoupling in the shoulder peak and the need to make sure everything is doubled up for the busiest times.

Some diagrams remain doubled until the close of traffic - mainly those which outstable at e.g. Enfield/Cheshunt, whilst 8 cars can run around all evening/weekend too if Tottenham are playing, or there’s a different big event at Tottenham.

All in all it’s a very good operation and the capacity is very much needed. You certainly notice on the rare occasion a short form turns up, but the days of being left behind when a 317/7 double turned up in the peak are long gone (Pandemic notwithstanding).
 
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800001

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Roger B said:
I've not seen it reported that 710270 has entered service yet either - also still in storage?
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710270/374/375 at Derby waiting a move to London. 710379 moved by road to Ilford for use as spares for now. (Strangely)
 
D365

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800001 said:
710270/374/375 at Derby waiting a move to London. 710379 moved by road to Ilford for use as spares for now. (Strangely)
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Any reason why that particular unit? By the sound of it, it might not be in a rail-worthy condition.
 
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Tony2

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Does anyone have the formations (linked to car numbers) for the 5 car class 710/3s?

Thanks for any help.
 
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