Class 710 LO

[greatkingrat]

12 would make more sense, connected to 1 & 2, can be accessed without interfering with any other lines and the lee valley services mainly use 11

Not possible - you can get from the NLL to Platform 12, but you can't get back again! 10A + 11 are both theoretically possible, but very few drivers would still sign it.

 

[ijmad]

I know NR turnbacks take longer, but y'all realise that most metros manage well over 20tph reversing in two platforms, even with traditional colour aspect signalling (ATO even higher, but obviously we don't have that on the NLL... yet).

Still, talking about a full 12 minutes of time here.

Although I guess as you all are saying, there might be issues with service disruptions causing platforms to fill up. Where else can the NLL be turned in the East? The track maps make it seem like the nearest crossover is just West of Canonbury which is quite far.

 

[mrmartin]

Indeed, the jubilee line at Stratford itself only uses 2 platforms most of the day to turn back 30+ tph with 0 problems.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

Indeed, the jubilee line at Stratford itself only uses 2 platforms most of the day to turn back 30+ tph with 0 problems.

The signalling on the Jubilee is designed for handling high numbers of a single class of train on a self-contained route. Signalling around Stratford NR has very different requirements.

 

[mrmartin]

I'm aware of that, but it just shows you how low capacity it is (especially considering the whole of the NLL was only recently resignalling). Even the DLR at Stratford with a major bit of single track running to CW manages 12tph!

 

[ijmad]

I'm aware of that, but it just shows you how low capacity it is (especially considering the whole of the NLL was only recently resignalling). Even the DLR at Stratford with a major bit of single track running to CW manages 12tph!

Both the Jubilee and DLR both have ATO signalling, the DLR in particular doesn't even need the driver to change ends, so it's not a fair comparison really. A better example might be the Metropolitan Line or District Line, both of which manage to turn 12tph, 14tph or 16tph in two platforms with colour aspect signalling. I know the requirements are different though.

 

[samuelmorris]

The thing is, the underground operates to a concealed timetable. If a service running at 12tph has a minor delay, they will simply stagger two services to be, for example, 7.5 minutes apart rather than 5 and then what would otherwise be a cancellation simply vanishes. In the case of NR, that extra turnaround time is useful to recover from delays rather than have to cancel services quite so often.

 

[Class 170101]

Although I guess as you all are saying, there might be issues with service disruptions causing platforms to fill up. Where else can the NLL be turned in the East? The track maps make it seem like the nearest crossover is just West of Canonbury which is quite far.

Can reverse in Hackney Wick westbound platform from west to head back east otherwise its Navarino Road Jn.

 

[ijmad]

Can reverse in Hackney Wick westbound platform from west to head back east otherwise its Navarino Road Jn.

Thanks. I clearly wasn't peering hard enough at the diagrams.

 

[simple simon]

When they were four cars it worked. Not anymore.

I remember seeing just this during the Olympics, might even have a photo... (two trains in one platform) but as you say, that was 4 car trains and 2x 5 car trains wont fit.

 

[simple simon]

I've seen on Twitter (spread over a string of messages) that for 4 nights a week a Class 710 is running 300 miles (two trips a night up the WCML to Tring / Milton Keynes Central) and if / when a train has made 7 successful fault-free such trips then it will have passed the Network Rail test requirement and be accepted for the start of staff training.

Its going to be a very tight timeframe but maybe, just maybe, at least one train will be ready to enter service next week?

https://twitter.com/cmpd_date/status/1087067773510053889

edit to add: what I am not understanding is how a few high speed runs can thoroughly test a train which will spend its life travelling at lowish speed (40mph and less) stopping at stations every few minutes... doors open / close and all that!

 

[plcd1]

I've seen on Twitter (spread over a string of messages) that for 4 nights a week a Class 710 is running 300 miles (two trips a night up the WCML to Tring / Milton Keynes Central) and if / when a train has made 7 successful fault-free such trips then it will have passed the Network Rail test requirement and be accepted for the start of staff training.

Its going to be a very tight timeframe but maybe, just maybe, at least one train will be ready to enter service next week?

https://twitter.com/cmpd_date/status/1087067773510053889

edit to add: what I am not understanding is how a few high speed runs can thoroughly test a train which will spend its life travelling at lowish speed (40mph and less) stopping at stations every few minutes... doors open / close and all that!

I think you are being overly optimistic. If comments elsewhere are to be believed one unit has to go to Velim in the Czech Republic for "certification". Furthermore there is no signed off driver training programme. Therefore even if a train did pass the threshold there are other milestones to get past before one can run in passenger service. Unless Arriva can agree with their trade unions and regulatory authorities to "flex" a whole load of standard processes then I think we're still talking about weeks before passenger service could be achieved even if a "reliable" train emerges in days.

 

[samuelmorris]

Months I would have thought. They need to agree a training programme first, then train the instructors, then train the drivers.

 

[ijmad]

How similar would the cab, safety and procedures be to the 345? I'm guessing it'd be tricky if not impossible to bend the rules to get some drivers hired for Crossrail on to the GOBLIN on a temporary secondment?

 

[samuelmorris]

Quite a lot different, I can't see them doing that.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

TfL Rail/Crossrail drivers aren't LO drivers, for one; two separate companies with TfL as the client. Plus the GOBLIN is a different route and Crossrail drivers won't be route learned on it. So snowball's chance in hell, I'm afraid.

 

[XCTurbostar]

All London Overground drivers are employed under Arriva Rail London. Most Willesden depot staff are employed by Bombardier.

 

[thecrofter]

Looks like they're running Tuesday & Wednesday only. Two round trips per night.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97184/2019/01/22/advanced

 

[ijmad]

Quite a lot different, I can't see them doing that.

TfL Rail/Crossrail drivers aren't LO drivers, for one; two separate companies with TfL as the client. Plus the GOBLIN is a different route and Crossrail drivers won't be route learned on it. So snowball's chance in hell, I'm afraid.

All London Overground drivers are employed under Arriva Rail London. Most Willesden depot staff are employed by Bombardier.

Fair enough!

 

[railfanatic]

To the spotters in here, there will be a 710 doing a test run between LST and Enfield tonight after 11 PM

 

[Railperf]

To the spotters in here, there will be a 710 doing a test run between LST and Enfield tonight after 11 PM

I want to see these in service - not on test runs!!

 

[railfanatic]

I want to see these in service - not on test runs!!

In which alternate world do you see Passenger Service before testing?..

 

[87015]

To the spotters in here, there will be a 710 doing a test run between LST and Enfield tonight after 11 PM

Same ones that didn’t run last night?

 

[Railperf]

In which alternate world do you see Passenger Service before testing?..

what i mean is that these should be in service by now. The Barking Gospel Oak service is close to collapse because these new trains are not in service!! A complete shambles on the part of Bombardier! One minute we were celebrating how great the Electrostars are and how reliable they are. The Aventra's have been a disaster so far.

 

[greatkingrat]

There are paths for the WCML, for West Anglia, and for Barking in the system most nights. There is no way of telling in advance which (if any) of them is actually going to run on any given night.

 

[samuelmorris]

what i mean is that these should be in service by now. The Barking Gospel Oak service is close to collapse because these new trains are not in service!! A complete shambles on the part of Bombardier! One minute we were celebrating how great the Electrostars are and how reliable they are. The Aventra's have been a disaster so far.

And the Electrostars were a similar disaster to begin with. Nothing new here, nor is this issue specific to Bombardier.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

what i mean is that these should be in service by now. The Barking Gospel Oak service is close to collapse because these new trains are not in service!! A complete shambles on the part of Bombardier! One minute we were celebrating how great the Electrostars are and how reliable they are. The Aventra's have been a disaster so far.

Yours is not a new opinion; it's been covered on this thread. We all agree it's a shambles. If you want your views to count, a quick search can find the Bombardier Transportation UK contact details. I'm sure they've got an operator waiting to take your call.

 

[railfanatic]

To the spotters in here, there will be a 710 doing a test run between LST and Enfield tonight after 11 PM

On the way to LST now!

 

[ijmad]

Reports from AnonW's blog (anecdotal yes, but there's no particular reason to disbelieve the quote):

I was talking to a station guy on the Gospel Oak to Barking Line yesterday and he told me, it will be two weeks before the new Class 710 trains start running.

Also:

He indicated that the Class 378 trains don’t fit the route

Perhaps Chinese whispers at work, but there we go.

 

[samuelmorris]

Running in training perhaps, but running in service I'm going to say no.