Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[KJ83]

Cool! Hopefully we'll see one rolling around soon enough, although I don't have the patience to stand around and wait to see it, rather just take a ride on one, but I'll probably have to wait a while for that!

The East Coast Trains 803s were delivered early last summer and they only appeared last month, Although im sure COVID played a part in that

 

[Jozhua]

The East Coast Trains 803s were delivered early last summer and they only appeared last month, Although im sure COVID played a part in that

Yeah, I mean I might take a ride on the rolling stock that was cascaded over - the ones that blow up - can't remember the class number rn lol

 

[Mordac]

Yeah, I mean I might take a ride on the rolling stock that was cascaded over - the ones that blow up - can't remember the class number rn lol

180s?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good above the solebar, awful below it.

 

[Ethan1852]

Just found this video about the new seats. Video by modern railways.

 

[irish_rail]

I look on enviously......I can't help but hate the fact that decent seating will be introduced on 80x fleets where journeys will be under 2 hours and yet on GWR South west routes where journeys are anything from 2 to 5 hours, standard class seats are dire. If only the new GBR would allocate the appropriate seating to the more appropriate routes.....

 

[Meerkat]

Will the 810s use HST speed limits, or are they going to review them for 810 specific ones seeing as they will be around for decades?

 

[hexagon789]

Will the 810s use HST speed limits, or are they going to review them for 810 specific ones seeing as they will be around for decades?

Given the other 80x can use HST differentials and that the 180s/222s do as well I'd be surprised if NR wanted to complicate matters by adding and indeed calculating a whole new differential category, particularly given recent moves to simplify them - ie changing SP to MU etc for new installations

 

[43066]

I look on enviously......I can't help but hate the fact that decent seating will be introduced on 80x fleets where journeys will be under 2 hours and yet on GWR South west routes where journeys are anything from 2 to 5 hours, standard class seats are dire. If only the new GBR would allocate the appropriate seating to the more appropriate routes.....

But to be fair GWR benefited from the new class of trains before any other region, so it’s only right that improvements are made to later builds of the same fleet.

I’d be interested to know how the average passenger journey times compare. Obviously end to end journeys are much longer but isn’t GWR predominantly a stopping local service once it gets more a couple of hours from London? The London - Bristol/Cardiff and London - Exeter routes are a lot more similar to EMR.

 

[edwin_m]

Given the other 80x can use HST differentials and that the 180s/222s do as well I'd be surprised if NR wanted to complicate matters by adding and indeed calculating a whole new differential category, particularly given recent moves to simplify them - ie changing SP to MU etc for new installations

The rules limit the number of differentials that can be in force on the same bit of track, to avoid the signs getting too confusing - without checking I think it's a standard differential (no letters) plus one lettered differential. So if an new one was created for 810s then some existing ones might have to be abolished, which would take you into network change and might make it difficult for the Midland Pullman HST to be timetabled on the Midland Main Line.

 

[Meerkat]

Would there be any realistic differences between HST and a theoretical 8** speed limit in terms of NR concerns (thinking gains but always risk that NR come back with ‘well actually we were being generous letting 8** use HST!)?
I was just thinking the introduction of 810s plus (hopeful) rolling electrification is effectively a route modernisation opportunity to review speed limits to look for gains or possible ‘easy’ wins to maximise the potential of the 810s.

 

[swt_passenger]

Would there be any realistic differences between HST and a theoretical 8** speed limit in terms of NR concerns (thinking gains but always risk that NR come back with ‘well actually we were being generous letting 8** use HST!)?
I was just thinking the introduction of 810s plus (hopeful) rolling electrification is effectively a route modernisation opportunity to review speed limits to look for gains or possible ‘easy’ wins to maximise the potential of the 810s.

Looked at nationally, 220/221/222 and presumably 180s and limited numbers of XC HSTs will also all still be around and using HST differentials for some years to come, especially on the MML north of Derby. As will numerous classes of slower DMUs.
So it makes more sense to leave HST as the name on the speed boards…

Didn’t we have a thread about why this wouldn’t change only a few months back?

What are HST speeds applicable to?

From Oxford Parkway to Bicester (and beyond to Bletchley) is 75/HST 100mph. It will see 10tph (both ways) when you add in 2tph to MK and 1tph to Bedford; 11tph with freight. Why are we creating HST speed boards for this route? The only section ever likely to have seen a HST will be Oxford to...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[43096]

Would there be any realistic differences between HST and a theoretical 8** speed limit in terms of NR concerns (thinking gains but always risk that NR come back with ‘well actually we were being generous letting 8** use HST!)?
I was just thinking the introduction of 810s plus (hopeful) rolling electrification is effectively a route modernisation opportunity to review speed limits to look for gains or possible ‘easy’ wins to maximise the potential of the 810s.

You really don’t want to be using class numbers to indicate the differential. A sign saying “100 810 110” is just asking for trouble compared with “100 HST 110”. If it ain’t broke, don’t try to fix it!

 

[Domh245]

Didn’t we have a thread about why this wouldn’t change only a few months back?

Indeed. HST doesn't mean "Cl43 + Mk3", it means anything that meets the various braking & axle weight restrictions. Based on the current crop of 80x qualifying for it, it'd be a surprise if the 810s didn't qualify

 

[Meerkat]

Looked at nationally, 220/221/222 and presumably 180s and limited numbers of XC HSTs will also all still be around and using HST differentials for some years to come, especially on the MML north of Derby. As will numerous classes of slower DMUs.
So it makes more sense to leave HST as the name on the speed boards…

Didn’t we have a thread about why this wouldn’t change only a few months back?

What are HST speeds applicable to?

From Oxford Parkway to Bicester (and beyond to Bletchley) is 75/HST 100mph. It will see 10tph (both ways) when you add in 2tph to MK and 1tph to Bedford; 11tph with freight. Why are we creating HST speed boards for this route? The only section ever likely to have seen a HST will be Oxford to...

www.railforums.co.uk

Thanks

 

[hexagon789]

The rules limit the number of differentials that can be in force on the same bit of track, to avoid the signs getting too confusing - without checking I think it's a standard differential (no letters) plus one lettered differential. So if an new one was created for 810s then some existing ones might have to be abolished, which would take you into network change and might make it difficult for the Midland Pullman HST to be timetabled on the Midland Main Line.

Indeed, and as pointed out there are of course other trains which currently use HST differentials which will need to continue to use them to avoid timetable issues - it simply makes the most sense to continue to use 'HST' to encompass a range of 9%g braked trains. I suspect it will even continue in use after the last HSTs in traffic have also been withdrawn around the network.

 

[WesternLancer]

Just found this video about the new seats. Video by modern railways.

This is good to see - but it's always a bit frustrating that these things are always filmed in a 1st class seating environment (a long tradition of that if you watch any old British Transport Films!). I'm sure everyone appreciates that for every 1st calss seat used over the lifte time of the seat, I'd hazzard a total guess that a Std Class seat is used about 10 times as much!
Anyway, I think they are also trying to improve the standard seat too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is good to see - but it's always a bit frustrating that these things are always filmed in a 1st class seating environment (a long tradition of that if you watch any old British Transport Films!). I'm sure everyone appreciates that for every 1st calss seat used over the lifte time of the seat, I'd hazzard a total guess that a Std Class seat is used about 10 times as much!
Anyway, I think they are also trying to improve the standard seat too.

I'd say those First Class seats look very narrow to me, FWIW, also the headrest seems to be too low down. I'm not sure I will like these.

 

[WesternLancer]

I'd say those First Class seats look very narrow to me, FWIW, also the headrest seems to be too low down. I'm not sure I will like these.

I'm not sure, but that's an interesting point. If the seats are to be 3 abreast (2+1) unless you have a narrower carriage body or need a wider aisle why would you have any reason to make them narrower I wonder?

 

[Halish Railway]

I'm not sure, but that's an interesting point. If the seats are to be 3 abreast (2+1) unless you have a narrower carriage body or need a wider aisle why would you have any reason to make them narrower I wonder?

You will have enough room to have 2 armrests per seat, rather than two seats having to share an armrest. Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the 745s the only class of train to have this feature?

 

[hexagon789]

You will have enough room to have 2 armrests per seat, rather than two seats having to share an armrest. Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the 745s the only class of train to have this feature?

Seperate armrests in Standard?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seperate armrests in Standard?

Separate centre armrests in 1st by having a slightly narrower seat. On most trains it's just a wider single one.

 

[LondonBound]

All been quiet recently.
Any news?

I guess these will have to be tested abroad as they're a new type, or can they be fastracked into fault free running?

 

[DanNCL]

All been quiet recently.
Any news?

I guess these will have to be tested abroad as they're a new type, or can they be fastracked into fault free running?

I wouldn’t expect any 810s to appear until the issue that caused the cracks on the 80xs has been identified and a fix found. Any fix will need to be applied to the 810s from new.

 

[Ethan1852]

Was watching a Video on youtube about the new HS2 trains being built at Newton Aycliffe and we have the first glimps of some of the Class 810 panels/ body. Not the best video at all but gives us a picture that the first few carriages are being worked on.

Time Stamps 100% Class 810: 00:32 , 00:37

Some body shells are being worked on in the video but it is hard to identify which class they are.

 

[Doomotron]

Was watching a Video on youtube about the new HS2 trains being built at Newton Aycliffe and we have the first glimps of some of the Class 810 panels/ body. Not the best video at all but gives us a picture that the first few carriages are being worked on.

Time Stamps 100% Class 810: 00:32 , 00:37

Some body shells are being worked on in the video but it is hard to identify which class they are.

I like how they say it's the first VHS train to be built in the UK, conveniently forgetting the Class 373s...

 

[py_megapixel]

I thought the 373s were built in France (which AFAIK isn't part of the UK!)

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Was watching a Video on youtube about the new HS2 trains being built at Newton Aycliffe and we have the first glimps of some of the Class 810 panels/ body. Not the best video at all but gives us a picture that the first few carriages are being worked on.

Time Stamps 100% Class 810: 00:32 , 00:37

Some body shells are being worked on in the video but it is hard to identify which class they are.

Very interesting the volume of cabling in modern trains is just extraordinary.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

I thought the 373s were built in France (which AFAIK isn't part of the UK!)

Me too

Alstom Belfort sits in my memory

 

[Bald Rick]

I like how they say it's the first VHS train to be built in the UK, conveniently forgetting the Class 373s...

The 373s were Betamax....