Class 84 passenger workings

[D6130]

Can anyone on here (maybe @CW2 ?) remember seeing or riding on any passenger trains hauled by a class 84 electric loco....particularly in Scotland? Having been constructed by the North British Locomotive Company, the class 83s and the Woodhead 1,500 V dc EM2 (class 77) locos, prior to the sale of the latter to Nederlandse Spoorwegen. However, with the extension of electrification from Weaver Junction to Glasgow and Mossend in 1973-74, more electric locos were required in addition to the then new class 87s and the 84s were reinstated and refurbished, but rarely used on passenger services. Details of any such sightings or recordings would be very much appreciated.

 

[CW2]

I had about 3 runs with 84s, one of which was Glasgow to Carlisle one Sunday afternoon on the Nottingham service. I'm away from my computer today - indulging my passion for brass band music - but I'll look up the details and post later

 

[D6130]

I had about 3 runs with 84s, one of which was Glasgow to Carlisle one Sunday afternoon on the Nottingham service. I'm away from my computer today - indulging my passion for brass band music - but I'll look up the details and post later

Many thanks.....I like brass band music too!

 

[CW2]

Many thanks.....I like brass band music too!

Well it has something in common with class 84s, in that it involves blowing large amounts of air in a tuneful manner!

 

[jfollows]

In 1980, taken via Manchester and Wigan from Crewe with a 47 on the front, then electric from Preston on Sunday 8 June 1980. The person in the second and third picture was me!
If it was a scheduled train, it will have been 1P55 13:54 Crewe-Carlisle, which was booked for vacuum-braked stock Sundays until 3 August. I went on it as far as Penrith (no picture of it, just a picture of an 87 passing through on a different train) and the reason for the journey was to get a train Penrith-Leeds via Carnforth (reverse twice) which was the diverted 1M86 15:15 Glasgow-Nottingham (normally Carlisle-Appleby-Skipton-Leeds) service calling at Penrith for Appleby passengers. Timing works because 1M86 was booked to depart Carlisle 17:07 and 1P55 would have been too late to change there (17:38 arrival) but perfect at Penrith (17:14 arrival).

EDIT I'm pretty sure the train details are correct. 1M86 was able to reverse twice at Carnforth (with the help of a class 25 I recall) to avoid having to run the engine round the stock, because it used the line from Furness & Midland Junction to East Junction which closed in 1998, which gave a direct route from Barrow to Giggleswick and Settle Junction. But although the purpose of the trip was undoubtedly to travel over 29 chains of unusual track at Carnforth (plus the Up and Down Furness Goods line past the station), the only pictures I have from the day (apart from the 87 at Penrith) are of 84002!

84002 was withdrawn in September 1980, so 3 months after my and its pictures attached, according to John Whitehouse (https://www.flickr.com/photos/wulfruna_kid/40406845521/).

EDIT Added WTT entry for 1P55

 

[Harvester]

Hauled by one, between Birmingham NS and Crewe. It was 84001 on the 09:30 SO Birmingham-Llandudno on 17th September 1977.

 

[Mike Machin]

I remember travelling behind one once whilst travelling in a motley collection of MK1s between Crewe and Preston on a scorching hot summer afternoon in 1975 or 76. As I have never ‘train-spotted’ or photographed the trains on which I have travelled, I’m afraid I have no idea of the number, or from where the train originated - but it was a lively ride!

 

[xotGD]

The only time I saw an 84 was ADB968021 (ex 84009) passing through Newcastle in the early 80s.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Yes quite a few. I will dig my records out and give haulage date and routes. After 1973 when they were brought out of retirement for Weaver junction to Glasgow electrification. I had one or two from Preston.

 

[childwallblues]

I travelled between Lime Street and Crewe twice behind I think E3041 and E3035 in 1962. They were on West Country trains and Crewe was the limit of electrification in those days. On both occasions the electric loco was replaced by a Warship diesel.

 

[hexagon789]

I had about 3 runs with 84s, one of which was Glasgow to Carlisle one Sunday afternoon on the Nottingham service. I'm away from my computer today - indulging my passion for brass band music - but I'll look up the details and post later

Wouldn't have been 84003 on the 23/03/80 by any chance? RailGenArchive has an entry for that date on the SuO 1M86 1515 GLC-NOT

 

[D6975]

June 28 1980
84003 worked the Bristol-Glasgow sleepers forward from New St

 

[GRALISTAIR]

View attachment 109490

EDIT I'm pretty sure the train details are correct. 1M86 was able to reverse twice at Carnforth to avoid having to run the engine round the stock, because it used the line from Furness & Midland Junction to East Junction which closed in 1998, which gave a direct route from Barrow to Giggleswick and Settle Junction. But although the purpose of the trip was undoubtedly to travel over 29 chains of unusual track at Carnforth (plus the Up and Down Furness Goods line past the station), the only pictures I have from the day (apart from the 87 at Penrith) are of 84002!

84002 was withdrawn in September 1980, so 3 months after my and its pictures attached, according to John Whitehouse (https://www.flickr.com/photos/wulfruna_kid/40406845521/).

View attachment 109490

Yes I was on that one.

 

[DJH1971]

The 84's were the first of the early AC locos to be withdrawn as they were said to be perilously unreliable

 

[jfollows]

Yes I was on that one.

I suspect we had something like a Class 25 attach to the back of 1M86 at Carnforth for the short reverse journey past this station to Furness & Midland Junction. Do you remember? I have no notes and, well, it's over 40 years ago and I don't trust my memory!

 

[Taunton]

I was in Glasgow when the WCML electrification opened in 1974, and going through Motherwell station shortly before the main line was completed, there was a line of several dead Class 84, seemingly newly restored, parked on the siding on the west side of the Hamilton line at the station.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I suspect we had something like a Class 25 attach to the back of 1M86 at Carnforth for the short reverse journey past this station to Furness & Midland Junction. Do you remember? I have no notes and, well, it's over 40 years ago and I don't trust my memory!

I do have notes but it will have to wait until I am back in England. Sorry

 

[Harvester]

The 84's were the first of the early AC locos to be withdrawn as they were said to be perilously unreliable

Yes, even after their refurbishment and reinstatement in the early seventies. It was pobably not the best of decisions to refurbish them (and the fifteen Class 83s), and build fewer Class 87s.

 

[DJH1971]

Yes, even after their refurbishment and reinstatement in the early seventies. It was pobably not the best of decisions to refurbish them (and the fifteen Class 83s), and build fewer Class 87s.

Whilst the 81's & 85's were among the better of the early AC locos

 

[jfollows]

I do have notes but it will have to wait until I am back in England. Sorry

Please don't apologise, it was just an idle thought and it's off-topic here anyway, but if in due course you get to find your notes I'd love to know ........ thanks!

PS The person who took the pictures I originally posted confirms that it's his memory that it was a class 25 which pulled us past Carnforth also. So at least two similar memories of something more than 40 years ago .....

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Yes I would go 84, 82, 83, 81, 85, 86, 87 in terms of improving reliability

 

[jfollows]

Yes I would go 84, 82, 83, 81, 85, 86, 87 in terms of improving reliability

My experience and failing memory .... I'd perhaps swap 82 with 83 in that list but it's marginal, like you I spent the 1970s behind many of them although in a slightly different location (S Manchester for me), and it was very unusual to see any 82, 83 or 84 on anything for sure. The pictures I posted earlier were from a lucky event I think, I can't imagine I knew that there'd be an 84 on the train in advance.
If nothing else, the AL2/82 had a high tension tap changer which proved itself to be a better design than the alternative which the AL3/83 had.

 

[D6130]

Thanks for your responses folks. Lots of interesting info there. I was never hauled by an 84 as far as I know....and only once - in both directions - by an 82, from Willesden to Wigan NW on a Footex from Portsmouth.

 

[Taunton]

A number of these AC locos seemed to succumb to fires, minor, major, and for some writing the locomotive off. What was it that caused such ignition, given they had no combustible fuel on board? Was there automatic fire protection installed?

 

[jfollows]

A number of these AC locos seemed to succumb to fires, minor, major, and for some writing the locomotive off. What was it that caused such ignition, given they had no combustible fuel on board? Was there automatic fire protection installed?

If the design includes a mercury arc rectifier, as some of them did, then I think this is asking for trouble along the lines you suggest ....... AL3 & AL4 both had these I think.

 

[NorthWestRover]

Just 84001 for me and that only on a rail tour, namely the LCGB Three Lochs Railtour on 17th Jun 1978 from Preston to Mossend and return.

(My notes also record 40031 on this from Earlestown to Preston, although Six Bells and RailGen have this as 40013. Motherlist is silent, but has 40031 at Preston on that day. Hmm).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Mercury arc rectifiers gotta luv ‘em

 

[D6130]

A number of these AC locos seemed to succumb to fires, minor, major, and for some writing the locomotive off. What was it that caused such ignition, given they had no combustible fuel on board? Was there automatic fire protection installed?

In addition to the mercury arc rectifiers, the transformers and their associated high tension cable joints were enclosed in oil baths, ostensibly to keep them cool....but you know what they say about the best laid plans! (see fires and explosions in class 303 amd 308 EMUs).

 

[Mag_seven]

I travelled as a youth on a couple of relief trains from Glasgow to Carlisle and back about 1981ish - unfortunately I did not take note of loco classes then so I always wonder if I had an 82, 83 or 84! Sadly I'll never know.

 

[Trackman]

A number of these AC locos seemed to succumb to fires, minor, major, and for some writing the locomotive off. What was it that caused such ignition, given they had no combustible fuel on board? Was there automatic fire protection installed?

Something to do with the oil transformers I think.
There was a mod made on the master switch/reverser (at least on class 86/87) so you couldn't accidentally move the reverser whilst running otherwise it could cause a fire they found out.

Also heard class 84's were a bit of a pain to drive too- first tap was 'Warp Factor 5' or something like that.
Only saw one in action and that was at Preston, could be the same working mentioned up thread as they didn't do much passenger working.