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Class 84 passenger workings

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hexagon789

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From the timetables I have:
1J24 10:10 Euston-Aberystwyth SO 26 May 1979 to 22 Sep 1979 Mark 1 VB 100mph stock. 1G25 air conditioned stock SX and other Saturdays to Birmingham.
1J24 10:10 Euston-Aberystwyth SO 28 May and 4 Jun and from 16 Jul to 3 Sep 1983 Mark 1 VB 100mph stock. To Shrewsbury only SO 11 Jun to 9 Jul, 10 Sep & 19 Sep 1983 Mark 1 VB 100 mph stock. 1G25 air conditioned stock SX and other Saturdays to Birmingham.
I had a look at the marshalling books, seems to have been summer Sats and Mk1s right towards the end of the 1980s. In 1987 though we have outwith Summer Sats a Mon-Sat train formed of an 11 vehicle Mk2 air-con set, only 6 forward to Aberystwyth though, the rear 5 were left at Wolverhampton. On Summer Sats though it's a 10 coach Mk1 set with the whole train running through to Aberystwyth.

Presumably the additional capacity was needed in the summer and the lack of sufficient ETH power on the 37/4s limited the number of air-con coaches they could work hence the splitting arrangements the rest of the year.
 
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xotGD

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I was based in Brum in the second half of the 1980s. The Manchester - Birmingham corridor was always a good bet for a Roarer, but they could drop on other cross country services and also Euston turns. There was also a Preston - Birmingham - Lancaster (or maybe the reverse) that was fairly solid Roarer. It would arrive in P1 at New Street, not run round, then depart via Bescot. While 85s were the more common variety, I also got to enjoy a number of 81s in this period.

In the early 80s I saw the occasional 82 and 83 on passenger at Carlisle but never had one. A Tardis and a Day Return to Penrith please!
 

D1537

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I only had one 84 in passenger service. 84003 from Crewe to Wolverhampton on an overnight service on a summer Saturday in (I think) 1979 - might have been 1980.

Living on an electrified route Class 81/2/3/5 were not difficult to find on passenger work in the late 70s / early 80s. Apart from the ones that were withdrawn pre-TOPS renumbering, I only missed 81016, 82006, 83003, 83004 and 83013.
 

Strathclyder

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Found this earlier this morning, thought it'd be of interest.

1479.jpg
(An unidentified Class 43 (aka D22/2) at NBL's Hyde Park Works soon after construction c.1960 sandwiched between a Class 84/AL4 and one of the 'Blue Star' Class 21s; note the cutout for the tablet catcher equipment under the cab window. Originally uploaded by scotrail.co.uk's 43100)
 

hexagon789

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Found this earlier this morning, thought it'd be of interest.

View attachment 109652
(An unidentified Class 43 (aka D22/2) at NBL's Hyde Park Works soon after construction c.1960 sandwiched between a Class 84/AL4 and one of the 'Blue Star' Class 21s; note the cutout for the tablet catcher equipment under the cab window. Originally uploaded by scotrail.co.uk's 43100)
That 84 looks tiny next to the Warship
 

Strathclyder

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That 84 looks tiny next to the Warship
That may be due to the camera angle/perspective highlighting the length differences. The 21 is actually the shortest one there at 51ft 6 inches (compared to the 84's 53ft 6+1⁄2 inches and the 43's 60ft). If it were one of the D600 Warships (which clocked in at 65ft long), the length differences between that and a 84 would be instantly noticable to say the least.
 

hexagon789

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That may be due to the camera angle/perspective highlighting the length differences. The 21 is actually the shortest one there at 51ft 6 inches (compared to the 84's 53ft 6+1⁄2 inches and the 43's 60ft). If it were one of the D600 Warships (which clocked in at 65ft long), the length differences between that and a 84 would be instantly noticable to say the least.
Also the height, but again it's probably the perspective
 

CW2

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By the early 80s the 81-85s were notionally treated as equal to one another for the purposes of allocation to services. However the practical experiences of the Control office staff tended to keep classes 82, 83 and 84 off passenger work wherever possible, as they had proven themselves to be more fragile than classes 81, 85, 86, and 87. The order of preference on class 1 daytime passenger services was pretty much:
1: 87
2: 86
3: 85
4: 81
5: 82 or 83
6: 84
By the early 80s it was comparatively rare to see any 82s or 83s working daytime passenger services, although they did still rack up considerable overnight passenger mileage. This is partly explained by the need for 87s and 86/4s to be taken off passenger work and put into multiple to work overnight freight services in pairs. So there would be fewer of the "preferred" classes of loco available for passenger work, and so the "non-preferred" locos would get their turn. Conversely you would see many Roarers on daytime freight services, which tended to be lighter loaded.
Once the class 90s had arrived and Roarers were life-expired, their retirement was pretty much in the reverse order of the above (as you might expect).
Another complicating factor was that some class 81s and 85s had 80 mph speed limits imposed on them, which restricted their use on passenger services, in an attempt to prolong their useful lives. Naturally that made those locos even rarer on passenger trains. Likewise the unmodified 86s (86/0s) were similarly restricted, pending modification.
So getting an 84 on a passenger train was pretty much only likely to happen if:
1: The Controller was a crank, or new / incompetent; or
2: The bottom of the barrel had been scraped, and nothing else was available; or
3: On a railtour.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I remember seeing a few pictures of NSE Mk1s on Aberystwyth runs, I'd need to look at some timetables but perhaps at some point there were either more than one through service to Euston or there was a regular all week run with Air-Con stock and then the Mk1s did a summer Saturday additional?
Without wishing to go too far off-piste (but this probably doesn't deserve its own thread) I have vague memories of a childhood holiday in 1989 staying at a caravan park near Borth. My brother and I were pleased that we could see the trains from our caravan, particularly the 37s and (novel to us at the time) 150s...

However, when I cast my mind back to that holiday, I'm sure I recall also seeing HSTs passing the same site. Did this actually happen, or could it be a false memory? It's entirely possible that I've conflated things from a different time and location, the human brain being somewhat fallible- for example for years I had this idea that Dovey Junction had the remains of an Aber to Barmouth curve visible- something that as far as I'm aware never actually existed, nor could have existed!
 

Bald Rick

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In the early 80's I went on a footex from Euston to Smethwick Rolfe St hauled by a 82.

must have been the best part of the day, given your final destination.

However, when I cast my mind back to that holiday, I'm sure I recall also seeing HSTs passing the same site. Did this actually happen, or could it be a false memory?

possibly hauled stock Intercity livery?
 

alistairlees

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Without wishing to go too far off-piste (but this probably doesn't deserve its own thread) I have vague memories of a childhood holiday in 1989 staying at a caravan park near Borth. My brother and I were pleased that we could see the trains from our caravan, particularly the 37s and (novel to us at the time) 150s...

However, when I cast my mind back to that holiday, I'm sure I recall also seeing HSTs passing the same site. Did this actually happen, or could it be a false memory? It's entirely possible that I've conflated things from a different time and location, the human brain being somewhat fallible- for example for years I had this idea that Dovey Junction had the remains of an Aber to Barmouth curve visible- something that as far as I'm aware never actually existed, nor could have existed!
Possibly this: https://www.125group.org.uk/43075-aberystwyth/
 

Beebman

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However, when I cast my mind back to that holiday, I'm sure I recall also seeing HSTs passing the same site. Did this actually happen, or could it be a false memory?

On 14/10/89 I travelled on an HRT 125 Railtour from Euston to Aberystwyth and that might be what you saw.
 

Peter Mugridge

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By the early 80s it was comparatively rare to see any 82s or 83s working daytime passenger services
And here's one... 82 008, South Kenton, August 1980. Apologies, but I don't have a note of the exact date.
 

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61653 HTAFC

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possibly hauled stock Intercity livery?
Would probably be the most likely, given that:

On 14/10/89 I travelled on an HRT 125 Railtour from Euston to Aberystwyth and that might be what you saw.
October is the wrong month, it was the summer holidays. So almost certainly a combination of seeing IC hauled stock, 7-year-old me associating that livery with HSTs, and the mists of time obfuscating my memory!
 

MadMac

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How did you manage to do that?
I was the Signals ‘rep’ on a few of the very early test runs, and our recording equipment had to be at the front. At Carnforth, we were “dragged” round the triangle to get the equipped end facing north!
 

MadMac

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I was in Glasgow when the WCML electrification opened in 1974, and going through Motherwell station shortly before the main line was completed, there was a line of several dead Class 84, seemingly newly restored, parked on the siding on the west side of the Hamilton line at the station.
Weighs sidings. Possibly acting as load banks south of Motherwell and/or on the Hamilton Circle?
 

Taunton

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Ah, a chance to ask. What does a Load Bank actually do? Is it a similar concept as a Counter Pressure steam locomotive, which the old LNER etc would retain an old loco for?
 

MadMac

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Not my field of expertise, but I believe, broadly speaking, they simulate a loaded train to test that the overhead supply system meets specifications.
 

Pigeon

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It's a great big fan heater. Turns juice into heat instead of pull, so you can turn it up or down at will independently of anything else. May or may not also have enough of a traction motor to move itself instead of being dragged everywhere.

The idea is to be able to put the electrical supply system under a controlled and variable amount of load so you can test that it is able to supply as much as it should and see how varying the load affects it.
 
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