• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Class 88 UKDual & EuroDual

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
16,739
It should be noted that some early electric and diesel electric locomotives (especially the early AC stuff on Southern) used repulsion motors instead of brushed DC motors.
That would mean you would have an alternator coupled to the motor field windings and the brushes would only carry low voltage armature current - with the attendant reduction in sparking and brush attrition.

Repulsion Motors are also rather easy to control, and you can do the drivetrain without rectifiers, which was important before they existed and your only real alternative was the universal motor - however they have serious problems attempting to do dynamic braking, it can get a bit hairy as the voltage across the alternator climbs rather alarmingly.
 
Last edited:

Sunbird24

Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
391
Location
La Mont Ravana
Several 88s in the yard this afternoon (15-Jan) including 3, 4, 8 & 10. Also a low loader tractor unit, so maybe the low-loader is inside to have a locomotive lifted onto it.
 

ac6000cw

Established Member
Joined
10 May 2014
Messages
3,157
Location
Cambridge, UK
The thermal efficiency of diesel engines is irrelevant to a discussion of the relative haulage capabilities of diesel locos i.e. how heavy a train they can start/accelerate/maintain a given speed with. The engine power ratings are normally power at the crankshaft i.e. where the alternator/generator is attached - if the engine is less thermally efficient it just means it burns more fuel to produce the same power into the traction system.

The video below is quite a good demonstration of the relatively small amount of power needed to start a train on a 2% gradient, versus that needed to keep the train moving at a reasonable speed on it. The locos are probably in power notch 1 or 2 (out of 8) when starting, then slowly notched up to full power by about 2 minutes into the video - there is a bit of wheelslip being corrected in the middle part, you can hear the engine note varying. The lead loco is a DC-drive EMD.

[youtube]BZvV3QucW6M[/youtube]
 

Sunbird24

Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
391
Location
La Mont Ravana
I have been informed that 88002 was probably loaded onto the vehicle carrier Autostar in Zeebrugge which will arrive in Southampton at 5am on Sunday. Unlike many car carriers this has a large heavy duty ramp for loading large, heavy vehicles.
ETA Carlisle 24th.
 

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,732
I have been informed that 88002 was probably loaded onto the vehicle carrier Autostar in Zeebrugge which will arrive in Southampton at 5am on Sunday. Unlike many car carriers this has a large heavy duty ramp for loading large, heavy vehicles.
ETA Carlisle 24th.

Apologies as I suspect this has been asked/answered before, but why are they not moving the big heavy railway locomotive by... rail?! Presumably cost and/or various red tape?
 

E_Reeves

Established Member
Joined
25 Oct 2015
Messages
1,412
Location
West Midlands
Apologies as I suspect this has been asked/answered before, but why are they not moving the big heavy railway locomotive by... rail?! Presumably cost and/or various red tape?

To stop us spotters from seeing it :lol:
 
Last edited:

Sunbird24

Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
391
Location
La Mont Ravana
Apologies as I suspect this has been asked/answered before, but why are they not moving the big heavy railway locomotive by... rail?! Presumably cost and/or various red tape?

Partly because it is the wrong gauge perhaps. It will not fit onto the Spanish Broad gauge tracks so it needs another method to get out of Spain.
Maybe a problem with it on French tracks as on its other trips abroad it (as a class) has gone by sea to Holland/Belgium and then travelled through Germany and Czech by rail.
 
Last edited:

E_Reeves

Established Member
Joined
25 Oct 2015
Messages
1,412
Location
West Midlands
Partly because it is the wrong gauge perhaps. It will not fit onto the Spanish Broad gauge tracks so it needs another method to get out of Spain.
Maybe a problem with it on French tracks as on its other trips abroad it (as a class) has gone by sea to Holland/Belgium and then travelled through Germany and Czech by rail.

I assume it'll be moved by rail after it arrives at Southampton?
 

Sunbird24

Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
391
Location
La Mont Ravana
I assume it'll be moved by rail after it arrives at Southampton?
My understanding is it will stay on the low-loader to Carlisle as it does not yet have UK approval to run as a rail vehicle over the national network. Once that is received the rest will likely travel by sea to Workington.
Much of the homologation was done in the Czech republic but each country has its own country specific checks to carry out first. This was scheduled for completion in February.
Update 22/1. It is currently spending the night at Allelys yard near Birmingham and will continue towards Carlisle in the morning.
 
Last edited:

221129

Established Member
Joined
21 Mar 2011
Messages
6,520
Location
Sunny Scotland
It was spotted on a low loader heading to Carlisle this evening. Was seen 9 miles north of the M3 junction 9 at Winchester on the A34 about 3 hours ago.
 

palmersears

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2011
Messages
1,485
88002 arrived at Kingsmoor at 1110 as part of 8Z66. Towed by 66422+66432.
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
16,739
I wonder how it managed that if it is not passed to run on NR metals?

If it has passed its gauging tests then they can simply haul her as a piece of cargo.
The electronic and signalling tests come later.
 

Sunbird24

Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
391
Location
La Mont Ravana
I wonder how it managed that if it is not passed to run on NR metals?
It did not run on NR metals other than some sidings. It was offloaded onto a siding to an industrial estate by Kingmoor (part of the old Waverley route) so avoided any mainline running. Industrial sidings and maintenance depots are outside NR jurisdiction provided they still comply with industry standards.
DRS are hoping to have the necessary paperwork to transport the remainder by rail (from Workington) next month with final deliveries during March.
 
Last edited:

Bertie the bus

Established Member
Joined
15 Aug 2014
Messages
2,791
It almost certainly did run on NR metals. There was a path in RTT and you don’t get them for movements on private sidings.

I’m not entirely convinced by the not passed to run argument. Although I don’t follow the delivery of new units that carefully I don’t recall the first of a class of new Seimens units being delivered by road. A possibly more plausible explanation is it just isn’t worth the time, effort or money to send a team from Carlisle to Southampton to accept one loco and give it a fitness to run exam when it’s on a low-loader already. 68015 was a single delivery and that was delivered to Carlisle by road despite several convoys of new 68s previously being delivered by rail.
 

furnessvale

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2015
Messages
4,582
If it has passed its gauging tests then they can simply haul her as a piece of cargo.
The electronic and signalling tests come later.

In which case, I wonder why it wasn't put on rail at Southampton.
 

Sunbird24

Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
391
Location
La Mont Ravana
It almost certainly did run on NR metals. There was a path in RTT and you don’t get them for movements on private sidings.

I’m not entirely convinced by the not passed to run argument. Although I don’t follow the delivery of new units that carefully I don’t recall the first of a class of new Seimens units being delivered by road. A possibly more plausible explanation is it just isn’t worth the time, effort or money to send a team from Carlisle to Southampton to accept one loco and give it a fitness to run exam when it’s on a low-loader already. 68015 was a single delivery and that was delivered to Carlisle by road despite several convoys of new 68s previously being delivered by rail.
Checked, it is controlled by Network Rail. The train ran from Kingmoor depot to the Yard where they collected the token from the Network Rail shunters cabin to access the branch to the cement depot where 88002 was waiting. Returned by same route. Must have had some dispensation for that stretch.
 

furnessvale

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2015
Messages
4,582
Checked, it is controlled by Network Rail. The train ran from Kingmoor depot to the Yard where they collected the token from the Network Rail shunters cabin to access the branch to the cement depot where 88002 was waiting. Returned by same route. Must have had some dispensation for that stretch.

That's what I was wondering.

"Rules is rules" as they say but I'm glad to see common sense is alive and kicking.
 

Sunbird24

Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
391
Location
La Mont Ravana
From the horses mouth:
https://www.directrailservices.com/news-articles/2017/02/01/class-88-arrival-in-the-uk/
Separately from the above it was earlier announced that approval was hoped for by the end of February which means test running in March/April
The last paragraph implies that they may not be available for charter duty before July as that would have given an opportunity to get close up to a couple.

Names so far applied:
88001 Revolution
88002 Prometheus
88003 Genesis
88004 Pandora
88005 Minerva
 

59CosG95

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2013
Messages
6,495
Location
Between Peterborough & Bedlington
From the horses mouth:
https://www.directrailservices.com/news-articles/2017/02/01/class-88-arrival-in-the-uk/
Separately from the above it was earlier announced that approval was hoped for by the end of February which means test running in March/April
The last paragraph implies that they may not be available for charter duty before July as that would have given an opportunity to get close up to a couple.

Names so far applied:
88001 Revolution
88002 Prometheus
88003 Genesis
88004 Pandora
88005 Minerva
I do wonder how much they had to pay Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins in royalties for 003's name...:lol::lol:

Further to the post on DRS' website that we'll be able to get close up to the 88, I assume it means actually being able to climb inside it at the open day. I heard that Pathfinder plan to use one on a tour on May 20th...http://www.pathfindertours.co.uk/index.php/event-list.html?day=20170520
 

221129

Established Member
Joined
21 Mar 2011
Messages
6,520
Location
Sunny Scotland
The last paragraph implies that they may not be available for charter duty before July as that would have given an opportunity to get close up to a couple.

It doesn't imply that at all. Given that there is already a booked charter for them in May...
 

Bertie the bus

Established Member
Joined
15 Aug 2014
Messages
2,791
It doesn't imply that at all. Given that there is already a booked charter for them in May...

I agree. They’re just trying to drum up interest in their open day. Not that they need to bother considering the masses that descended on Gresty Green for that one when the 68s arrived.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top