Wyrleybart
Established Member
Really ?I'd rather the 93s replace the 360s, horrible things that always seem to be breaking down!
So how would you propose to use class 93s to replace class 360 EMUs ?
Have you thought this through ?
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Class 93 Tri-mode Loco
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So how would you propose to use class 93s to replace class 360 EMUs ?
Have you thought this through ?
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Spartacus
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Yes.
MML work to and from Corby, 93s & Mk5As reformed into longer sets, 7x7 cars or 6x8 cars (though that leaves no spare carriage sets), with similar mods to the 93s as the 68s.
More thought out that most of the ideas for them. The planned base of 93s at Leicester would be very convenient, the only diesel running would likely be ECS and emergency.
Course it's only pipe dreams, hence the chuckle, there'd be no spares in the event of breakdowns with the second plan, and shorter sets with the first, although that seems to be little different to the normal situation with EMR's 360s anyway, any fault and it's cancellations and short-forms as it is, and it seems increasingly likely Chiltern will be getting the Mk5As anyway.
93+Rog 37 north through Warrington on 0Q06 2226 Crewe South Yard to Carlisle
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Realtime Trains | 0Q06 2226 Crewe South Yard to Carlisle | 13/01/2025
Real-time train running information for 0Q06 2226 departure from Crewe South Yard to Carlisle on 13/01/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Sun Chariot
Established Member
ROG's LinkedIn page has two photos of 001 passing through Mansfield Woodhouse, a few days ago
www.linkedin.com
Rail Operations Group on LinkedIn: Fantastic photos of 93001 at Mansfield Woodhouse Station as it was passing…
Fantastic photos of 93001 at Mansfield Woodhouse Station as it was passing through the Robin Hood line heading from Worksop. Photos courtesy of Ollie Novell
www.linkedin.com
Bertie the bus
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How quickly people get bored. For the pre-Christmas WCML test runs there was a decent turn out to see and photograph 93001. Last night I was the only one and they haven't entered service yet!
Last night's test run didn't operate in push-pull mode. 93001 hauled the stock both ways.
Last night's test run didn't operate in push-pull mode. 93001 hauled the stock both ways.
Class15
Established Member
I noticed that purely from the non-reaction on this thread!
Spartacus
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I've always noticed it on the Scarborough Spa Express. First few times it runs and everywhere's busy, then unless some rare loco turns up it can be practically ignored by half way through.
themiller
Established Member
I’ve not been out to see it because it’s after my Wincarnis time!
given that it was just 2 light engines 2 nights ago (and I only spotted the post after the event!) and that it should have gone through Crewe after my bedtime there's no way I would have gone out in the cold and dark just for that!
Wincarnis doesn't come in to it (other tipples are available...)
It achieved 110mph running last night with the ETS on and performed really well despite following slower services.
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sjpowermac
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That’s great news. Many thanks both for the update and excellent image.
that's good to hear... my copied https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R50362/2025-01-13/detailed didn't hint at any coaches...
themiller
Established Member
I note that the pantograph was down in both photos. Was the run done on diesel?
Was in AC mode for both runs. Pan was dropped at Penrith whilst some diagnostics were done due to the early running, then at Carlisle the run round was done on Diesel/Battery.
themiller
Established Member
Thanks for the confirmation.
Bertie the bus
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An interesting feature I noticed on these is when the cab light was on there was a light under the loco shining on the front wheel , ladder and the ground. You can see it in this photo - https://flic.kr/p/2qFuHc2. It wasn't illuminated when the cab light was off.
I have never seen that before. Is it unique to the Class 93s and is it to provide illumination for the driver when they leave the cab?
I have never seen that before. Is it unique to the Class 93s and is it to provide illumination for the driver when they leave the cab?
dan4291
Member
Not unique, all Hitachi 80x have something similar and probably other newer trains. Good idea though.
ac6000cw
Established Member
US freight locos have had full-time lighting on the steps for many years (it's a Federal rules requirement I think) - a night-time frame grab from 2019:
Yorkshire09876
Member
Is it capable of running in push-pull mode? I.e. have the 93 and DVT been fitted with compatible multiple-working systems?
Nym
Established Member
Depends on the DVT and what ended up being fitted to the 93. They might have included the several versions of AAR used on the Mk.3s and Mk.4s that are converted for as such. But I doubt they have the TDM fitted as used on the Mk.3As on the WCML.
Yorkshire09876
Member
Yes, I am aware of that - but from the sockets on the 93 in previous photos it appears to only have the native train wire bus fitted to all the UK Stadler classes, plus connections for the translator equipment for use with the Dellners when dragging EMUs.
The DVT has AAR (it originally had TDM but I don't know whether that is functional still).
Hence the question - it's only going to be doable if modifications have taken place. And some sort of through wiring would be needed too.
Nym
Established Member
Even if them DVTs have AAR, the coaches almost certainly do not.
ChristopherJ
Repeatedly returning banned member
My take on the 93, based on talking to people who have contacts involved with it.
Remember the Worksop - Sheffield test runs? They were done on diesel+battery mode. In videos it looks like the 93 accelerates really, really quick. That's because it has the battery boost - which drains really quickly because it's starting a heavy train in the Short Time rating.
Once the 93 gets up to speed and into the Continuous rating, the battery mode drops off and/or is drained and the diesel engine has to provide *both* traction and battery recharging. Apparently it's absolutely gutless in this mode.
That was just with a small rake Mk3s, I'd shudder to think how it would perform on a 1,800t container train out of Felixstowe / London Gateway.
Remember the Worksop - Sheffield test runs? They were done on diesel+battery mode. In videos it looks like the 93 accelerates really, really quick. That's because it has the battery boost - which drains really quickly because it's starting a heavy train in the Short Time rating.
Once the 93 gets up to speed and into the Continuous rating, the battery mode drops off and/or is drained and the diesel engine has to provide *both* traction and battery recharging. Apparently it's absolutely gutless in this mode.
That was just with a small rake Mk3s, I'd shudder to think how it would perform on a 1,800t container train out of Felixstowe / London Gateway.
bahnause
Member
Why would you want to charge the battery at a time when full traction is needed?
Belfastmarty
Member
Is the recharging of the battery automatic, or can it be controlled by the driver ? Or possibly geofenced to downhill sessions of the route ?
Out of London Gateway it would be low speed to the signal so it only needs full power for a couple of hundred yards from the signal to the junction and then it can pan up. Out of Felixstowe it will use more power as it's a longer run but you'd wait to recharge the battery until it's on the OLE at Ipswich.
The port where I'd be most concerned about it's performance is Southampton, as the 93 can't use the third rail so it'll be on Diesel/Battery mix to Reading.
Nottingham59
Established Member
That's really helpful, thanks.
But there's a big difference between Felixstowe (30m climb, single track, passenger services on a timetable in the way) and Gateway (double track, 6m climb, freight only). I think a 93 would need electrification before being used at Felixstowe. I would expect Gateway to be OK.
For me the big question is still how reliably the 93 can deliver the tractive effort to haul a heavy intermodal up the gradients on the WCML.
well, it has got 6,200 hp according to Wikipedia, are you afraid the wires can't supply that?
It would only be on diesel if something had failed, or if they weren't prepared to pay NR's power price - and doing that would probably cost them a lot for delay repay!
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I am not surprised it is gutless after a stint on diesel + battery. Its only purpose is to cope with the non-electrified bits of a predominantly electric journey. The debate will be how bearable this diesel + battery combination is on the non-electrified parts of a trains route.
London Gateway should be easy.
Between Felixstowe and Ipswich it is further with a gradient and also has passenger trains to fit in with.
I see the class 93 as an electric locomotive with a small diesel engine to cope in yards and short off the juice bits where an electric locomotive cannot get to currently. The battery merely improves the acceleration while on diesel.
Of course if more power is required off the electrified sections then it is the class 99, discussed on another thread.