Clwydian Railways - New open access operator between Wales & Marylebone

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realemil

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They plan on linking North Wales with Marylebone, via Shrewsbury, Wolverhampton and Banbury. Quite an interesting bid.

Does anyone know if any documents have been submitted yet?

Edit:
Appears no ORR application yet, https://clwydianrailways.com/media
After further consultation with local rail users as well as businesses we have taken the decision to include stops at Flint & Shotton stations into our plans when we submit them to the ORR.
 
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ExpressTrain

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As much as I’d really like to see this, isn’t it just going to be abstractive on the TFW North Wales to Birmingham services? Most of those places already have some form of direct service to London too, although it’d probably be more reliable than Avanti…
 

Undiscovered

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Wrexham & Shropshire tried this nearly a decade ago and, while it was recognised they provided a high level of service, it ultimately wasn't profitable.
 

anthony263

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Wrexham & Shropshire tried this nearly a decade ago and, while it was recognised they provided a high level of service, it ultimately wasn't profitable.
One of their problems was the use of the expensive loco hauled sets. Shame they couldn’t get the class 170’s like they wanted originally
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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I’m not even convinced it’s more than a joke. Look at how the website has a section for buying tickets and careers already! Exceptionally premature when they’ve not even applied yet.

Between London and Chester it’s basically Wrexham and Shropshire which failed miserably and was an exceptionally slow route, and as mentioned above it’s basically TfW’s North Wales Birmingham route from Wolverhampton northwards.
 

Energy

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One of their problems was the use of the expensive loco hauled sets. Shame they couldn’t get the class 170’s like they wanted originally
... and that it took ages to get to London

They say that they will use the class 175. While I doubt fare abstraction will be too much of an issue I'm not sure if they will make much money.

Also, they have a gift shop. I don't know why people would buy branded stuff of any rail operator, let alone one which hasnt run a service yet.
 

Wolfie

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... and that it took ages to get to London

They say that they will use the class 175. While I doubt fare abstraction will be too much of an issue I'm not sure if they will make much money.

Also, they have a gift shop. I don't know why people would buy branded stuff of any rail operator, let alone one which hasnt run a service yet.
Hmmm.... More diesels into Marylebone when others are making plans to remove them....
 

Undiscovered

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What rolling stock are they proposing to use now?
I'm sure if the demand was there, Virgin/Avanti would have increased their services. Additionally, with the journey time of around 4hrs, it's going to need to competitively priced to compete with WMTs BHM to EUS for £15.
Even if you add the fare from SHR to BHM, still in the region of £35 overall, and into a more accessible station for London tourists.

The route itself really isn't that useful for those just hopping on to local stations either, with north of WVH being mopped up effectively by the current TfW and WMT services, and with WMT still retaining the XX:13 pathways too. Picking up the crumbs...

Edit:
WMT- West Midlands Trains
TfW- Transport for Wales
SHR- Shrewsbury
BHM- Birmingham New St
EUS- London Euston
WVH- Wolverhampton
 
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Merseysider

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Bangor to London is £80 return with a CH&TFW ticket - so CR will want to be selling for no more than £65 return surely, given they’ll (if all the stars align) have just four journeys a day. Flint to London is £57 so they’ll need to go for a price point no higher than £45 I’d have thought.

Can’t see this making any kind of serious money.
 

Chester1

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The company's registered address is a normal house in Rhyl and the address on the website is Rhyl Railway station. There is no media coverage. Is this some school kid's Business Studies project or the fantasy of an enthusiast? I am struggling to believe this is a serious proposal.
 

danm14

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The company's registered address is a normal house in Rhyl and the address on the website is Rhyl Railway station. There is no media coverage. Is this some school kid's Business Studies project or the fantasy of an enthusiast? I am struggling to believe this is a serious proposal.
It is a legitimately registered Limited Company, and while this means almost nothing in itself (it is trivial to form a limited company in the UK); it seems highly unlikely that a school kid would form a limited company under the false identity of a 30 year old man for a Business Studies project.

The registered address is not a normal house - it is a co-working space, which is also the registered address of various other companies with no apparent links to Clwydian Railways Ltd, including the local Business Improvement District, a women's refuge and a roofing contractors.
 
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Mainline421

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There's a few things off about that site, grammatical errors, odd wording, an invalid phone number, links that won't be relevant for years... They're also recruiting for an unpaid director! But they do at least appear to have all the legal stuff in order. In the unlikely event this is a serious venture I wish them luck
 

Fokx

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This all looks very similar to the AQA first year A-LEVEL ICT module.
 
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175001

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Taken off NWRail....

The sole officer of the company is a Jeremy Robert Jasper, born 1992, who is known as a designer of rolling stock for train simulators

I think that says it all. That's as far as it'll go. Train Simulator
 

DelayRepay

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What rolling stock are they proposing to use now?

From the website

We are exploring the opportunity of using The British Rail Class 175 Coradia 1000 a diesel multiple-unit that Transport for Wales will cease using once they've completed delivery of the Class 197. These units have recently been refurbished by TfW, if CR take over the lease of these units from Angel Trains they will undergo a further refurbishment program to bring them up to our highly tailored specification, delivering the upmost of comfort for the ultimate passenger travel experience.
 

D365

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Is this what a Speculative Discussion thread looks like when it comes to life?!

I think that says it all. That's as far as it'll go. Train Simulator
Cor, I wish I had the confidence to put that on my company CV!
 

The Planner

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Never make claims until you have a level of detail behind it. Go-Op did this must be 15 odd years ago, changed their routes, traction etc multiple times and have still yet to run a train. See other mad ones like Grand Northern etc...
 

skyhigh

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Is this what a Speculative Discussion thread looks like when it comes to life?!
Yeah, it's clearly an enthusiast who hasn't considered the practicalities of converting a pie-in-the-sky idea to real life.

Given the massive costs involved with starting an open access operator a one man band with no practical experience and who is using a free website service is never going to be viable.
 

Moonshot

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Yeah, it's clearly an enthusiast who hasn't considered the practicalities of converting a pie-in-the-sky idea to real life.

Given the massive costs involved with starting an open access operator a one man band with no practical experience and who is using a free website service is never going to be viable.
No doubt he is on this very forum reading this.
 

Wolfie

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Gutted. I would've loved a pair of their red and black check PJs!
Perhaps that's the hidden cunning moneymaker. Sell a shedload to enthusiasts of souvenirs for a train company that never has, and very possibly never will, turned a wheel in anger.....
 

dosxuk

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The registered address is not a normal house - it is a co-working space, which is also the registered address of various other companies with no apparent links to Clwydian Railways Ltd, including the local Business Improvement District, a women's refuge and a roofing contractors.

If you look at the filing history on Companies House, it was originally registered to a normal house, which just happens to also be the home address of the sole director, and was moved to the current address at the start of July. Many of the "company check" type websites are still listing the original address if you Google the company name.
 

Doomotron

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Cor, I wish I had the confidence to put that on my company CV!
To be honest, developing content for Train Simulator is a skill - just not one that is relevant to the real railway. In the unlikely event this operator becomes real, it'll just be the second series of The Wrexham And Shropshire Show. Bankrupt within a few years. They could make it ultra-luxury and sell a super-premium first class but the economics of planes don't always apply to trains, especially on an unproven route. A W&S-level service won't help them, and even then Wrexham wasn't even that good.
 

Energy

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To be honest, developing content for Train Simulator is a skill - just not one that is relevant to the real railway. In the unlikely event this operator becomes real, it'll just be the second series of The Wrexham And Shropshire Show. Bankrupt within a few years. They could make it ultra-luxury and sell a super-premium first class but the economics of planes don't always apply to trains, especially on an unproven route. A W&S-level service won't help them, and even then Wrexham wasn't even that good.
If you are going 'super premium' then you need a route which has high passenger numbers (only a minority will be willing to pay extra) to fill the train and a long enough journey (people aren't going to be as willing to pay a premium if the journey is only 1 hr). Even then Caledonian Sleeper (and less so the Night Riviera) and needs subsidy.
 
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