Competition heats up between Transdev and Connexions

[SCH117X]

A Mon-Sat daytime contract is certainly one that will fit well with the Connexions ethos. I assume he will have submitted a loss making tender in order to secure the work from the incumbent!

If he has made such a tender the wolves must be gathering - cannot see how they are making much money on any of their Harrogate local routes; most buses I see have a passenger count you can get in an average car. Saw an obviously bored X1C driver a couple of weeks back go off route and take a short cut to the St James Park terminus rather than amble meaningless around the roads of Knaresborough - no passengers on board.

 

[theblackwatch]

Harrogate Plus Zone that is (as different to the Harrogate local Zone) and its Wetherby not the Racecourse as that is served only by Connexions 412.

According to the map at http://www.harrogatebus.co.uk/fares/TheHarrogateBusCompany/DayPeriodAnd12-journeyTickets_11.html it's the racecourse that is the boundary - the 770/771 go past it between Wetherby and Walton.

 

[SCH117X]

According to the map at http://www.harrogatebus.co.uk/fares/TheHarrogateBusCompany/DayPeriodAnd12-journeyTickets_11.html it's the racecourse that is the boundary - the 770/771 go past it between Wetherby and Walton.

Its the back of the racecourse that the 770/771 pass; the main entrance is on the 412 route.

 

[SCH117X]

Noticed Transdev are increasing prices once again. It already costs about a months wage to get from Tad to York/Leeds and back (feels like it anyway!)

£90 monthly ticket to either York or Leeds - so for an average month of 22 working days that's £2.05 for a journey of 11 or 15 miles. Seems pretty cheap to me as I pay the equivalent of £1.70 for a 2 mile journey.

 

[theblackwatch]

Its the back of the racecourse that the 770/771 pass; the main entrance is on the 412 route.

Yes, I know that - I never mentioned specific entrances. Unless that map is incorrect, the ticket is valid to there as I said, the boundary is not Wetherby itself. What it means is that people can travel from Harrogate to (the back of) Wetherby Racecourse for £4.20 return, but to go that extra mile or so will cost a lot more. I think it was £7.00 return to Walton last time I did it a couple of years ago.

 

[96tommy]

£90 monthly ticket to either York or Leeds - so for an average month of 22 working days that's £2.05 for a journey of 11 or 15 miles. Seems pretty cheap to me as I pay the equivalent of £1.70 for a 2 mile journey.

But for those who travel maybe weekly or twice weekly it is ridiculous pricing.

 

[SCH117X]

But for those who travel maybe weekly or twice weekly it is ridiculous pricing.

Think everyone is now aware of your views but fares in N Yorkshire are high to all operators due to the lack of any subsidy and the peanuts NYCC pay re concessions. Full buses between York and Harrogate were commercially unsustainable to both Transdev and Connexions as they were 99% full of concessions holders. In terms of people making the trip between Taddy and York or Leeds infrequently their is a 12 journey ticket currently £33 to York and £38 to Leeds which is either £2.75 or £3.17 a journey. How much is a return ticket anyway?

 

[SCH117X]

Yes, I know that - I never mentioned specific entrances. Unless that map is incorrect, the ticket is valid to there as I said, the boundary is not Wetherby itself. What it means is that people can travel from Harrogate to (the back of) Wetherby Racecourse for £4.20 return, but to go that extra mile or so will cost a lot more. I think it was £7.00 return to Walton last time I did it a couple of years ago.

Suspect the enlargement of the Plus Zone was largely to tackle Connexions competition and the boundary was extended beyond the Wetherby conurbation to alongside the racecourse as it was an readily evident location they can describe. The extension to Pool Bridge equally competing for custom from Huby with Connexions and also Yorkshire Tiger, although the KDay card already does that for passengers local to the route. The extension to Harewood Bridge being to tie the map together without affecting income.

 

[theblackwatch]

Suspect the enlargement of the Plus Zone was largely to tackle Connexions competition and the boundary was extended beyond the Wetherby conurbation to alongside the racecourse as it was an readily evident location they can describe.

There's also no competition for Transdev to Thorp Arch Trading Estate, so they can get away with charging a huge amount extra for that short bit. I suspect that if Connexions were to divert an X70 or two in the peak via Walton/Thorp Arch, we'd suddenly find the Plus Zone extended that mile further....

 

[Stan Drews]

Suspect the enlargement of the Plus Zone was largely to tackle Connexions competition and the boundary was extended beyond the Wetherby conurbation to alongside the racecourse as it was an readily evident location they can describe. The extension to Pool Bridge equally competing for custom from Huby with Connexions and also Yorkshire Tiger, although the KDay card already does that for passengers local to the route. The extension to Harewood Bridge being to tie the map together without affecting income.

Was the Plus zone not extended as part of last years fare changes?

 

[96tommy]

Think everyone is now aware of your views but fares in N Yorkshire are high to all operators due to the lack of any subsidy and the peanuts NYCC pay re concessions. Full buses between York and Harrogate were commercially unsustainable to both Transdev and Connexions as they were 99% full of concessions holders. In terms of people making the trip between Taddy and York or Leeds infrequently their is a 12 journey ticket currently £33 to York and £38 to Leeds which is either £2.75 or £3.17 a journey. How much is a return ticket anyway?

Belive it's about £6 to York and near £7 for Leeds

 

[SCH117X]

Belive it's about £6 to York and near £7 for Leeds

So a 12 journey ticket is cheaper.

Was the Plus zone not extended as part of last years fare changes?

Yes

 

[SCH117X]

Yes - their bus service is about to evaporate completely.

Still, never mind - so long as Connexions has got one over on the evil Transdev.

From Monday to resolve the issue the 0720 X70 from Tadcaster and the 1650 X70 from Wetherby will serve Thorp Arch British Library according to Connexions website (or is that Connoxious buses as I noted a former driver of theirs described them on another forum). Noticed Conn (whatever) timetables are still absent from stops which have a red Transdev timetable case but on the Wetherby Road in Knaresborough the stop opposite the one they have tweeted complaining that the new Transdev sign does not indicate the 780 (not that any other stops in Harrogate or Knaresborough have ever had their service on the sign) has a black NYCC timetable case, is only served by the 780 and is devoid of a timetable!

 

[the101]

Noticed Conn (whatever) timetables are still absent from stops which have a red Transdev timetable case but on the Wetherby Road in Knaresborough the stop opposite the one they have tweeted complaining that the new Transdev sign does not indicate the 780 (not that any other stops in Harrogate or Knaresborough have ever had their service on the sign) has a black NYCC timetable case, is only served by the 780 and is devoid of a timetable!

Sounds like the complaint that ol' Craig was threatening to make to Harehills House and whoever else may care to listen went well then.

 

[Deerfold]

From Monday to resolve the issue the 0720 X70 from Tadcaster and the 1650 X70 from Wetherby will serve Thorp Arch British Library according to Connexions website.

Well that's good news at least.

 

[spuddie]

Looks like Transdev have done well in recent passenger survey scores:

https://cbwmagazine.com/transdev-scores-high-in-passenger-survey/

Transdev has held a passenger satisfaction survey to assess its new and revitalised bus services.

Transdev subsidiary The Harrogate Bus Company’s 36 bus route saw a 97% overall satisfaction rating, while Transdev’s CityZap express service linking York and Leeds achieved a 96% score.

The company’s redEXPRESS service between Blackburn, Accrington and Manchester saw a 99% overall satisfaction rate.

All three services were praised by customers for their friendly drivers, value-for-money fares and top quality facilities on board, including fast and free WiFi and USB charging points at every seat.

Transdev Yorkshire and Lancashire CEO, Alex Hornby, said: “We’re very encouraged by these results, which show high levels of customer satisfaction for our premium products.

“We’re especially delighted to see how many people have made the switch to these three key routes instead of driving or taking the train. Our combination of high quality, frequent and comfortable buses, driven by friendly staff and offering outstanding value-for-money compared with the alternatives is winning more and more new customers to our buses.

“These are very encouraging results, but for us they are only the beginning. Our whole team on the buses and behind the scenes is working hard to make our services even better in future – and we’ll continue to break the mould with innovative new products and services in 2017 and beyond.”

Now will Connexions take this news:
a) gracefully and concentrate on there own services
b) complain and suggest that Transdev have been importing passengers from France specifically to boost their survey results and that Connexcoins only transport local passengers.

 

[34D]

Looks like Transdev have done well in recent passenger survey scores:

https://cbwmagazine.com/transdev-scores-high-in-passenger-survey/



Now will Connexions take this news:
a) gracefully and concentrate on there own services
b) complain and suggest that Transdev have been importing passengers from France specifically to boost their survey results and that Connexcoins only transport local passengers.

Given that the argument over the name 'Harrogate Bus Company Ltd' is ongoing, I suspect not.

Their not 'there' however.

 

[spuddie]

Given that the argument over the name 'Harrogate Bus Company Ltd' is ongoing, I suspect not.

Their not 'there' however.

Oops, grammar has never been my strong point, just noticed I managed to call them Connexcoins too....d'oh!

Will be interested to see how the name argument pans out, I do feel it's a shame these 2 companies don't get on better.

 

[the101]

Today's hysterics on Connexions' Twitter feed suggests that there is 'chaos' in some random town and it is all caused by Transdev's bus running five minutes in front of Connexions'. The accompanying photo shows two buses parked in a bus stop.

It's just embarrassing to read what he has to say.

 

[SCH117X]

The sooner they go bust the better for everyone - who was it who stuck his clapped out vehicles 5 minutes in front of Transdevs between Harrogate and Wetherby in the first place, and what about his timetabling of the x6/x6A at the same time as Transdev's 6. Seems to be yet another example of Do as I say not as I do.

 

[Ginga]

Cityzap fares have gone up again! must be loss making. Trent Barton have dropped another of Hornbys routes Zoom, and have past it on to Low Cost Company Notts and Derby , with drivers on £3 per hour less than the trent barton ones. The i4 Drivers still curse Hornby and the Md for buying Tempo Sr's , has to be the worst bus in terms of sales. They only made what 13?

 

[Bungle965]

Cityzap fares have gone up again! must be loss making. Trent Barton have dropped another of Hornbys routes Zoom, and have past it on to Low Cost Company Notts and Derby , with drivers on £3 per hour less than the trent barton ones. The i4 Drivers still curse Hornby and the Md for buying Tempo Sr's , has to be the worst bus in terms of sales. They only made what 13?

Would you not agree that on whole what Alex is doing is good? Not only for Transdev but also for the bus industry as a whole, he is bringing in new buses and making them look generally more appealing for the public.
You have not explained what it is that the drivers hate so much about the Tempo SRs
It is certainly not the worst selling bus of all time for Optare`s standard it is pretty good! They have had numerous failures over the years example include the Rapta, Solo+ and their latest try at the double decker market the MetroDecker which up until now has been all around the country and no one has placed an order.
So as far as Optare products go, it was not a complete failure!
Sam

 

[Andyh82]

Cityzap fares have gone up again! must be loss making.

All Transdev fares have just gone up, not just Cityzap.

 

[96tommy]

The Cityzap is not well used at all and now with the introduction of the new Coastliner buses I would not say it is a premium service. They would earn much more money by stopping in Copmanthorpe and Tadcaster in stead of having 2 or 3 people per journey

 

[SCH117X]

All Transdev fares have just gone up, not just Cityzap.

Not quite all - no increase on Harrogate Route 1 (presumably due to the Connoxious competition), and lower fares introduced for Keighleys K Zone (£3 instead of £3.20) and York-Malton-Coast day returns reduced to £14 from £14.50.

 

[mattpharrison]

The Cityzap is not well used at all and now with the introduction of the new Coastliner buses I would not say it is a premium service. They would earn much more money by stopping in Copmanthorpe and Tadcaster in stead of having 2 or 3 people per journey

2 or 3 people per journey? It's been packed every single time I've been on it. Travelled today, almost a standing load heading out to York and full upstairs on the way back. And not just concessions, either. Cityzap has never been marketed as the 'premium' service - it's the 'fast' service - and that's why people choose it.

 

[96tommy]

2 or 3 people per journey? It's been packed every single time I've been on it. Travelled today, almost a standing load heading out to York and full upstairs on the way back. And not just concessions, either. Cityzap has never been marketed as the 'premium' service - it's the 'fast' service - and that's why people choose it.

I have generally never seen it with more than 11 or 12 people on. The majority of times I've seen it its been in the lower single numbers and I see it an awful lot albeit usually in the middle of the day and not in peak journeys. I think run it as a coastliner branded service and run non stop York to Leeds in the Peak times (similar to the old 743) what must be when the majority of people use it and have additional Coastliners off peak

 

[Stan Drews]

Cityzap fares have gone up again! must be loss making. Trent Barton have dropped another of Hornbys routes Zoom, and have past it on to Low Cost Company Notts and Derby , with drivers on £3 per hour less than the trent barton ones. The i4 Drivers still curse Hornby and the Md for buying Tempo Sr's , has to be the worst bus in terms of sales. They only made what 13?

Did they not state late last year that the service had breached the break even point, and was now making money?

 

[Stan Drews]

It would appear that the latest skirmish isn't going to last too long.

https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/500244/

 

[Andyh82]

The ongoing dispute has now made the press

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/15141557.Bus_firm_bust_up_leaves_some_passengers_fuming/

Bus firm bust-up leaves some passengers fuming

A BUS firm bust-up has left some passengers fuming.

Two rival companies are at loggerheads over service timings on a shared route.

Both operators – Keighley Bus Company and Connexionsbuses – run services only about ten minutes apart between Ilkley, Otley and Harrogate.

The Keighley Bus Company service – 62 – also links with Keighley, Silsden and Addingham.

Among passengers angry at the timings clash is Les Goater, from Bradley Grove, Silsden.

"It's about time someone intervened in the stupidity of the two companies," he said.

"Both operate along mainly the same route to Harrogate, as the X52 and 62.

"If there is a need for two buses an hour along the route, can we change the timetables so they are half an hour apart and then benefit the customer?

"This obvious war is not in the public interest and I'm sure not in the interest of either company."

I bet the customer "fuming" has a vested interest