Condition 19c.. multiple splits and day travelcard

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lj9090

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Got a weekend trip in London coming up, and I plan to use a few splits as it saves enough to make it worthwhile (and Southern have an online special on one of them!)
Done a few splits but never tried a 19c split before, and my first one being a little complex I'd like a little confirmation I'm not doing anything "wrong".

It's using a variation of the fairly well known Southampton [SOU] - Brighton [BTN] anomoly:

I have a season Bournemouth [BMH] - Brockenhurst [BCU]
Plan to get 2 * singles from Brockenhurst [BCU] - Beaulieu Road [BEU], one for each day.
Off-peak return BEU-BTN (Not London) to get me as far as Clapham Junction [CLJ]
Then a paper day travelcard to get me from Clapham Junction [CLJ] - London Waterloo [WAT] and anywhere in Zone 6 on the first day.
And on the way back I'd either get a paper single WAT-CLJ, or if there's time to waste continue a journey via oyster and leave the station at CLJ to touch out.

Now, is it perfectly OK to jump on a train BMH-WAT that doesn't call at either BEU or CLJ? Nothing much stops at the former, and there's a few that don't stop at the latter.

I would assume yes, but it's using the travelcard from CLJ to WAT I'm not entirely sure about.
 
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bb21

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Many Bournemouth trains are set down only at Clapham Junction coming into London and pick up only when leaving. Some people believe that your ticket is not valid between Clapham Junction and London Waterloo when combined in the manner you described as Clapham Junction is not for both pick up and set down.

I am of the opinion that your combination of tickets satisfies Condition 19(c) of the NRCoC. Your combination of tickets covers the entire journey, as the Beaulieu Road - Brighton ticket has no break of journey restriction, and one of them is a season (Bournemouth - Brockenhurst). There is no relevance what nature the call is at Clapham Junction, as that is only covered under Condition 19(b). I am therefore of the opinion that your proposal is valid on any direct train between Bournemouth and London Waterloo.
 

lj9090

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Ah, didn't even think of set down and pick up only restrictions.

Don't think it'll be an issue - there's nothing listed in the timetable as set down only at CLJ anymore; they must have changed this as I do remember this being the case.
On the way back I'll need an oyster journey to get to Waterloo anyway and as I'm not really pushed for time on the sunday getting a suburban on the same oyster trip to CLJ then touching out and coming back in again is quite doable and would save me the single fare aswell.
 

hairyhandedfool

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.... There is no relevance what nature the call is at Clapham Junction, as that is only covered under Condition 19(b)....
Even if there were, condition 19(b) only refers to the train calling at the station, no reference is made to set down or pick up only calls. If it calls to set down, it calls. If it calls to pick up only, it calls.
 

bb21

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Don't think it'll be an issue - there's nothing listed in the timetable as set down only at CLJ anymore; they must have changed this as I do remember this being the case.
You are of course correct. It would seem that the "up" trains are now stopping normally at Clapham Junction, whereas the "down" trains are still pick-up only.
 

DaveNewcastle

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Even if there were, condition 19(b) only refers to the train calling at the station, no reference is made to set down or pick up only calls. If it calls to set down, it calls. If it calls to pick up only, it calls.
FWIW, I just want to add my emphatic approval of this interpretation. However, I'm not aware that it has ever been tested, and if there was a dispute (the probability of which I cannot begin to estimate), then it beggars belief that a claim could succeed on the basis of distinguishing between a 'set down only' or 'pick up only' station and, as HHF says, simply calling at a station.
 

lj9090

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Ok, doing this journey again, but given the recent media attention to splitting tickets I'm a little jumpy as to part of it's validity, I'd imagine revenue might be having a crackdown soon..

Much the same as before, but this time round I'm leaving after work in Brockenhurst. Now, is my *journey* from Bournemouth as I left there this morning (so with a BOJ), or is my journey from Brockenhurst, as I haven't purchased any of the tickets yet.

If the latter then a non-calling split at Beaulieu Road won't be valid as my season won't be making up part of the journey. If it comes to it could I just excess to Southampton Central (£2.05), or might I find myself liable for a PF or even worse?
I could just buy the single through to Southampton, for £2 or so it'll avoid any doubt. But if I don't have to then I won't.
 

yorkie

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I think your journey is from Brockenhurst in this case so I don't think it would be valid to get a train that does not call at Clapham Jn. I would strongly advise changing at a station such as Woking, Basingstoke or wherever is convenient, for a train that calls at Clapham Jn, or get a later/earlier direct service calling at Clapham Jn.
 
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