Confusing platforming at Leeds

[Eric]

Does anyone who works in the industry know why the 21:07 to Ilkley and 21:08 to Preston are both scheduled to depart from platform 6?

Currently on the 21:08 and we haven't set off yet because the train in front has only just moved.

Only a few minutes delay but with so many empty platforms around - why do both use platform 6?

 

[cf111]

This is a guess but maybe the stock for the two services comes in as one train earlier in the evening?

 

[Eric]

Yeah, you could be right. I saw a 158 and 142 together earlier on.

 

[Andyh82]

This is a guess but maybe the stock for the two services comes in as one train earlier in the evening?

Is the Ilkley not some sort of electric unit?

 

[GW43125]

I think this was mentioned a couple of months ago, I think it's to do with swapping units between two different runs (one's a 2car and one's a 3car if memory serves correctly)

 

[Eric]

The Preston was a 3 car 158.

 

[Class 170101]

Its a Rules of the Plan non-compliance which goes away from timetable change in December as the Preston train moves to 5C. Still NR should spot this if Northern bid it that way in the first place, and if they did, that's naughty naughty.

 

[Adam0984]

It’s an awful bit of planning. The set for the Preston is in platform 6 for a good hour or 2 and the Ilkley gets put on top. Don’t think the situation is helped that at that time you have a couple of VTEC trains in the station so space is limited. I’m sure it’s beem flagged up many times and was a bit of a puzzle to solve

 

[Tomnick]

Its a Rules of the Plan non-compliance which goes away from timetable change in December as the Preston train moves to 5C. Still NR should spot this if Northern bid it that way in the first place, and if they did, that's naughty naughty.

How will that help? The Preston train will still have to cross behind the Ilkley, so it won’t get the road any sooner?

 

[Sunset route]

Anyone can suggest its changed, station staff, signallers etc have all asked for stuff to be altered in the past. Pre 2010 someone from the TPC could have popped down and asked if it would work.

I have and will still do permanent changes to platform workings that don’t work. Agree with station supervisor that the plan doesn’t work, get them to let their chain of command know what is changing, tell the shift manager of the changes and to reprint the page of the simplifier, change is affective with immediate effect.

 

[Eric]

I have and will still do permanent changes to platform workings that don’t work. Agree with station supervisor that the plan doesn’t work, get them to let their chain of command know what is changing, tell the shift manager of the changes and to reprint the page of the simplifier, change is affective with immediate effect.

Why can't the Preston go into platform 10?

 

[Eric]

Moving it to 5c won't work for reasons stared above.

Plus the Virgin to Bradford Forster Square is usually late, so that holds the Ilkley up, which uses the same line as the Forster Square Virgin service.

 

[Sunset route]

Why can't the Preston go into platform 10?

I don’t know as I don’t work in that part of the country, I was merely backing up what “the planner” said, that getting platforms changed is in the hands of any member of staff that deals with them at that location, if they applied themselves. Although it’s a bit easier for signallers to suggest and act upon such changes than platform dispatch staff.

 

[greatkingrat]

Why can't the Preston go into platform 10?

The 2118 to Huddersfield is already in platform 10. Not sure what this is normally formed of, but if it is 3-cars, there wouldn't be room to put the 2106 to Preston on top.

 

[lejog]

Why can't the Preston go into platform 10?

Because as you would see if you read the earlier posts, the service is often used to swap a 3 car 158 from the Victoria to Leeds route to the Blackpool/Preston route, in which case it has a lengthy wait at Leeds (up to 90mins). A 3 car 158 would block Platform 10 completely - its only 99m long, when its needed for other trains. It can however be stacked at one of much longer bay platforms, while other services run from the western ends of the platform.

 

[rebmcr]

it has a lengthy wait at Leeds (up to 90mins)

I suppose there's nothing analogous to Piccadilly's Engine Siding (which was used for similar dwells before ATW began to serve Manchester Airport)?

 

[lejog]

How will that help? The Preston train will still have to cross behind the Ilkley, so it won’t get the road any sooner?

I agree, I suppose at least the Preston train can depart before the Ilkley train if necessary. Aren't parallel departures from platform 6 and 1-5 possible? (if the services don't cross obviously). If so I could see the sense of the Ilkley service moving platforms.

 

[Tomnick]

Yes, Ilkley off 5 and Preston off 6 would allow parallel moves. As you say, no good if they cross paths though. At least the Preston train (I think!) can potentially get the road out of 5 to the first gantry if the Ilkley goes out from 6 on C or D lines, which might save half a minute or so.

 

[Class 170101]

How will that help? The Preston train will still have to cross behind the Ilkley, so it won’t get the road any sooner?

Yes Indeed it still doesn't work. I thought it was just a platform clash. I am surprised NR let NT get away with that one.

 

[BantamMenace]

Because as you would see if you read the earlier posts, the service is often used to swap a 3 car 158 from the Victoria to Leeds route to the Blackpool/Preston route, in which case it has a lengthy wait at Leeds (up to 90mins). A 3 car 158 would block Platform 10 completely - its only 99m long, when its needed for other trains. It can however be stacked at one of much longer bay platforms, while other services run from the western ends of the platform.

Can't the Victoria to Leeds continue to York and the Preston start from York, thereby freeing the bay for 90 minutes and using two through platforms for a couple of minutes each instead?