Contactless but can't remember which card...

[some bloke]

Underground station staff can resolve incomplete journeys.

Still?

On Oyster, a few days ago.

 

[87 027]

There is a delay of upto about 15 minutes before a touch will appear, though I find rail touches are usually there in 5 minutes.

Whilst in my experience this is broadly true, on 3 separate occasions this year it has taken several days for the back office to assemble the relevant information. On one occasion Thursday's journeys didn't show until Saturday, and on another Monday's didn't show until Wednesday. So I don't regard it as a completely reliable indicator of reassuring myself that I have touched in.

As other posters have suggested, I have 2 cards registered with TfL but only ever use one of them for my day to day travel. The other is purely as a contingency.

 

[Stigy]

Depends how up-to-date you mean by "real time". If your card is registered on the TfL website then you can see todays journeys on the account dashboard, or alternatively on the TfL app. There is a delay of upto about 15 minutes before a touch will appear, though I find rail touches are usually there in 5 minutes. Buses can take a little longer.

That might well be the case, but what I was trying to get across is that it’s not instantaneous like an Oyster Card is. If you fail to tap your bank card, and it’s subsequently checked on a RID, it’ll activate it. Likewise if there’s no money in your account (and you don’t have the facilities to use your card with no immediate funds available.....like a lot of youngsters lol) and you tap your debit card, it’ll still work and the RID will activate it or the barriers will let you exit the station.

With an Oyster, it’s immediately rejected at barriers if not used correctly, and comes up as “failed” on a RID. Even with a delay of just 5-minutes, it’s not real time, so still works as suggested.

 

[MikeWh]

Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes here. If you board a train at eg Slade Green and can't be sure which card you used, then the app will tell you after around 5 minutes. The website will tell you if it was contactless, but not Oyster. Without the app you can only check Oyster journeys at an Underground ticket machine.

 

[Bantamzen]

Or see if your card provider does different coloured cards for you.

For those carrying multiple cards when using contactless, I'd recommend a leather card case that can be bought from online retailers such as Amazon for two or three pounds (assuming of course that you are not vegetarian or vegan). I bought one a little while back from them for my West Yorkshire MCard, as well as my Two Together card & it has been invaluable. I certainly wouldn't want to put something as valuable as a debit or credit card in a flimsy plastic wallet, and the one I bought allows the card to stay in it whilst being read, making it a little more security conscious too.

 

[Stigy]

For those carrying multiple cards when using contactless, I'd recommend a leather card case that can be bought from online retailers such as Amazon for two or three pounds (assuming of course that you are not vegetarian or vegan). I bought one a little while back from them for my West Yorkshire MCard, as well as my Two Together card & it has been invaluable. I certainly wouldn't want to put something as valuable as a debit or credit card in a flimsy plastic wallet, and the one I bought allows the card to stay in it whilst being read, making it a little more security conscious too.

I use one of these for my staff train passes. You can get ones these days (like mine) which are more secure in that they block cards being used too, so they can’t be cloned. It’s handy, but means you have to open the wallet a bit in order to use the cards still in the wallet.

 

[Stigy]

Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes here. If you board a train at eg Slade Green and can't be sure which card you used, then the app will tell you after around 5 minutes. The website will tell you if it was contactless, but not Oyster. Without the app you can only check Oyster journeys at an Underground ticket machine.

i think you’re right. I was talking more from an enforcement point of view rather than a ‘check to see which card you’ve used’ point of view.

 

[marshmallow]

This is akin to a problem I had a few years ago.

Had boarded a train from a station where there was no barrier. Then couldn't remember if I had touched in or not. It was annoying there was no way to know. If I knew I had forgotten, I could have got off and touched the pad at the next station. But in event I had touched in, then this would have been a touch out. I resented the situation where it was impossible to "do the right thing" to be sure I was travelling with a valid ticket. (Well not impossible, I suppose. Could have got off and bought a paper ticket....)

I can completely relate to this as I sometimes struggle to remember whether I have done something or not. Sometimes I travel with Oyster or contactless in London and if I have entered an unbarriered station with validators, I cannot always remember if I have touched in or not. It is very frustrating that it is not possible to check this without risking exiting the system if you have already touched in.

 

[PeterC]

I can completely relate to this as I sometimes struggle to remember whether I have done something or not. Sometimes I travel with Oyster or contactless in London and if I have entered an unbarriered station with validators, I cannot always remember if I have touched in or not. It is very frustrating that it is not possible to check this without risking exiting the system if you have already touched in.

That is an issue in some locations where the validators are tucked away outside of the passenger's line of sight. I find it more of an issue on leaving a station than entering. At Cutty Sark for example I am sure that many people have ended up in the street expecting to touch out at the exit rather than on the landing half way up. (They may have fixed that example, I am recalling from a couple of years ago)

 

[marshmallow]

That is an issue in some locations where the validators are tucked away outside of the passenger's line of sight. I find it more of an issue on leaving a station than entering. At Cutty Sark for example I am sure that many people have ended up in the street expecting to touch out at the exit rather than on the landing half way up. (They may have fixed that example, I am recalling from a couple of years ago)

The fact that validators are tucked away at some stations means that some passengers may touch out on one at a barriered station (if they do not know that it is barriered) and then wonder what to do when they get to the barriers. This happened to me once, however I was told correctly by staff that one is able to tap out at the barriers without further charge.

 

[PeterC]

The fact that validators are tucked away at some stations means that some passengers may touch out on one at a barriered station (if they do not know that it is barriered) and then wonder what to do when they get to the barriers. This happened to me once, however I was told correctly by staff that one is able to tap out at the barriers without further charge.

On platform validators are a different issue and only exist where there is a likelyhood of transferring between a NR paper ticket and Oyster. The problem that I was responding to was with unbarriered stations. This is a particular issue on parts of the DLR where readers were retrofitted to stations which were not designed to have passengers flow past a single validation point.

 

[londonbridge]

The fact that validators are tucked away at some stations means that some passengers may touch out on one at a barriered station (if they do not know that it is barriered) and then wonder what to do when they get to the barriers. This happened to me once, however I was told correctly by staff that one is able to tap out at the barriers without further charge.

I think the term for that is continuation exit?

 

[island]

On platform validators are a different issue and only exist where there is a likelyhood of transferring between a NR paper ticket and Oyster. The problem that I was responding to was with unbarriered stations. This is a particular issue on parts of the DLR where readers were retrofitted to stations which were not designed to have passengers flow past a single validation point.

There is a problem with this at Stratford. There are six prominent standalone readers at the entrance to the DLR platform for trains towards Pudding Mill Lane, which is of course inside the gateline, and set as a continuation exit. Passengers are encouraged by signage to touch their Oyster cards there, which in fact they should not unless continuing a journey with a paper ticket from the National Rail platforms.

Whilst for passengers who are ending their journeys at Stratford this is merely confusing, for those starting a DLR journey there, or transferring from DLR to London Underground or National Rail, it is downright dangerous. If the passengers touch as suggested, their Oyster cards will show touched out if inspected on their connecting services, and they may well end up with Penalty Fares. If not inspected they will still be charged the correct fare on touching out at their eventual destinations.

 

[marshmallow]

Whilst for passengers who are ending their journeys at Stratford this is merely confusing, for those starting a DLR journey there, or transferring from DLR to London Underground or National Rail, it is downright dangerous. If the passengers touch as suggested, their Oyster cards will show touched out if inspected on their connecting services, and they may well end up with Penalty Fares. If not inspected they will still be charged the correct fare on touching out at their eventual destinations.

This seems like a good example of why using contactless is better. Unfortunately you cannot apply a railcard discount though.

Also it drives me mad that until they introduce the back office system for Oyster, it is cheaper in some situations to use 2 separate Oyster cards in a day...but if you don't know in advance exactly what journeys you will be making, it is impossible to know what is best to do. TFL's advice to always use the same card to get the best fare is wrong! [I discovered this when I had already hit my zones 1-2 price cap and made some "free" bus journeys before travelling from Liverpool Street to Romford. I was then charged for a bus journey there and I realised that I would have been better off using a different card to travel from Liverpool Street to Romford!]

 

[PeterC]

There is a problem with this at Stratford. There are six prominent standalone readers at the entrance to the DLR platform for trains towards Pudding Mill Lane, which is of course inside the gateline, and set as a continuation exit. Passengers are encouraged by signage to touch their Oyster cards there, which in fact they should not unless continuing a journey with a paper ticket from the National Rail platforms.

Whilst for passengers who are ending their journeys at Stratford this is merely confusing, for those starting a DLR journey there, or transferring from DLR to London Underground or National Rail, it is downright dangerous. If the passengers touch as suggested, their Oyster cards will show touched out if inspected on their connecting services, and they may well end up with Penalty Fares. If not inspected they will still be charged the correct fare on touching out at their eventual destinations.

This isn't the only place that has this issue although it probably is the busiest. Before they withdrew the Chesham shuttle you could sometimes see people actually queuing at the reader on platform 1 at Chalfont when changing from an Amersham train.

Judging by the lack of screams on the prosecutions section here or on the oyster-rail website I would guess that an RPI's reader is able to disregard continuation exits.

 

[route:oxford]

I have just realised with some banks and mobile phone banking contactless comes under TFL pending and happens pretty quickly. So if you can't remember go to your mobile banking app and it will tell you which account so you can figure out which card.

My phone buzzes near enough instantly that I tap to note a transaction or authorisation has been made.

 

[marshmallow]

My phone buzzes near enough instantly that I tap to note a transaction or authorisation has been made.

Yes I suppose using Google Pay is a reasonably good solution

 

[route:oxford]

Yes I suppose using Google Pay is a reasonably good solution

That's not google play. It's my Banking Apps.

 

[najaB]

That's not google play. It's my Banking Apps.

Note that Google Pay isn't the same thing as Google Play - Pay is linked to your payment card and/or banking account and can be used for contactless payments - and by default is configured to display a notification every time it's used.