Contactless payment card linked with Oyster account?

[johntea]

Just got to London and rather than endure the hell of ticket machine queues I found out I could link my contactless debit card to my online Oyster account, hurrah! (I forgot my Oyster card)

I still have £3 odd left on my Oyster account, will it deduct from that first or straight from my bank account?

 

[matt]

It will be taken from your bank account of the contactless card you used.

 

[johntea]

Thanks.

Another question I've got the same card linked up to Apple Pay on my iPhone. Can I use that instead of the physical card today and still have it count towards the same 'cap'? (I've made 1 complete journey using the card today).

 

[rebmcr]

I believe the system treats Contactless and Apple Pay slightly differently, but it knows they're linked. I couldn't find any information about whether the cap 'works'.

Maybe you could risk £1 and find out for us all!

You could get a refund on the Oyster card if you're happy to never use it again. You'd get the £3 credit back as well as the £5 deposit, and you can do it at any of the new-style ticket machines (which is pretty much all of them now as far as I'm aware).

 

[Be3G]

Apple Pay devices and contactless payment cards are treated as separate payment methods, even if Apple Pay is set up with the same card details as the payment card being considered. Capping is therefore handled independently and will not work from phone to card and vice-versa.

 

[Jordy]

Another question I've got the same card linked up to Apple Pay on my iPhone. Can I use that instead of the physical card today and still have it count towards the same 'cap'? (I've made 1 complete journey using the card today).

No, they are interpreted as two separate payment devices even if the money comes out of the same account. The same principle applies to two cards belonging to the same 'joint' account.

 

[Via Bank]

The physical card and any instance in Apple Pay or another NFC solution count as separate cards and therefore have separate caps applied.

However, they do at least know about the link between cards, so if you have the card registered on TfL's Contactless pages, it will show two cards: one for the physical card, one for the NFC card.

 

[swt_passenger]

The physical card and any instance in Apple Pay or another NFC solution count as separate cards and therefore have separate caps applied.

However, they do at least know about the link between cards, so if you have the card registered on TfL's Contactless pages, it will show two cards: one for the physical card, one for the NFC card.

It doesn't appear to do that (show two cards) for Apple Pay though. As I reported in this thread: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123607
the payment made using the iPhone's DAN appeared directly on the CPC part of the Oyster Account, or put another way, the iPhone and its DAN for that debit card doesn't appear as a separate card.

 

[Barn]

Not being funny, but why do people use Apple Pay rather than just using the card?

It makes sense in the USA, where contactless cards don't exist to the same extent, and it would make sense if the extra fingerprint security allowed for a greater payment value threshold.

But if it is functionally the same as touching the card, but with the disadvantage of additional time and risk of battery problems, what is its raison d'être?

 

[johntea]

I used it yesterday, it is slightly slower than the card however I've usually got my phone out by the time of getting to the barrier so it is quicker for me personally than fumbling around for my card every time!

If on a London trip I ensure my phone is charged fully overnight and it usually easily lasts the day as it is the larger 'plus' model plus I use WiFi where possible which in London is pretty easy to find!

 

[island]

Not being funny, but why do people use Apple Pay rather than just using the card?

It makes sense in the USA, where contactless cards don't exist to the same extent, and it would make sense if the extra fingerprint security allowed for a greater payment value threshold.

But if it is functionally the same as touching the card, but with the disadvantage of additional time and risk of battery problems, what is its raison d'être?

The extra fingerprint security does allow for a greater payment value threshold at merchants which support it. (Such merchants include M&S and Boots.)

Additionally, if using an Apple Watch for Apple Pay, it saves getting one's card out. (It is somewhat awkward when using ticket gates if one wears a watch on one's left hand, however.)

 

[bluegoblin7]

Not being funny, but why do people use Apple Pay rather than just using the card?

I still can't (personally*) see an advantage to ApplePay on the Tube, but for many people, myself included, it's simply more convenient. I don't have a CPC, and can't get one, but I can link a non-contactless card to my ApplePay. I also quite often have my phone in my hand, so it saves digging my wallet out.

(*It's still slower, even when you get it activated before you get to the gateline. It's still a pain, and you still need to have sufficient battery on your device. Caught a customer out yesterday evening!)

 

[johntea]

There was a slight flaw last night when it chucked it down and my fingers got so wet my iPhone wasn't picking up my fingerprint It eventually worked after a quick wipe down with my shirt!

Anyway what I have found odd is the total 'TfL' charge seemed to come through at around 2am each morning...surely it should be working that out more towards 4:30am? Not that it affected me.

 

[Barn]

The extra fingerprint security does allow for a greater payment value threshold at merchants which support it. (Such merchants include M&S and Boots.)

Interesting, thanks. Do you have to request Apple Pay from the cashier / till first to ensure that the reader doesn't just see the value is over 30 pounds and default to 'insert/swipe' mode?

 

[MikeWh]

Anyway what I have found odd is the total 'TfL' charge seemed to come through at around 2am each morning...surely it should be working that out more towards 4:30am? Not that it affected me.

As far as I know if you change your travel total after midnight it will be adjusted the next day. The charges are still calculated 0430-0430 and very few people increase the amount due after midnight.

 

[StateOfPlay]

Not being funny, but why do people use Apple Pay rather than just using the card?

It makes sense in the USA, where contactless cards don't exist to the same extent, and it would make sense if the extra fingerprint security allowed for a greater payment value threshold.

But if it is functionally the same as touching the card, but with the disadvantage of additional time and risk of battery problems, what is its raison d'être?

The one advantage is the security is better. It needs my fingerprint to work whereas my contactless card needs nothing.

 

[island]

Interesting, thanks. Do you have to request Apple Pay from the cashier / till first to ensure that the reader doesn't just see the value is over 30 pounds and default to 'insert/swipe' mode?

Yes at Boots. At M&S the reader will say "touch device or insert/swipe card" or instructions to that effect.

 

[Be3G]

A little off-topic I know, but I wish there were a list somewhere of all of the retailers in the UK who support CDCVM (consumer device cardholder verification method – what I believe is the system that allows Apple Pay transactions of any amount). The only one I know of not mentioned by island is (unsurprisingly!) Apple Stores.

 

[island]

Ironically I don't use it at Apple Stores because I use Apple ExpressPay on the Apple Store app so I can scan my own stuff.

 

[me123]

I still can't (personally*) see an advantage to ApplePay on the Tube, but for many people, myself included, it's simply more convenient. I don't have a CPC, and can't get one, but I can link a non-contactless card to my ApplePay. I also quite often have my phone in my hand, so it saves digging my wallet out.

(*It's still slower, even when you get it activated before you get to the gateline. It's still a pain, and you still need to have sufficient battery on your device. Caught a customer out yesterday evening!)

I have a CPC and Apple Pay, and have used both in London. I prefer Apple Pay, because:
1) It's easy to get my phone out and "arm" Apple Pay on the approach to the gateline. It's less easy to dig around in my wallet for the card.
2) I would often have my phone out in these circumstances, it's reasonably natural to do so. By contrast, I'd be highly unlikely to have my bank card out when going through barriers on the tube. I also would be highly unlikely to have the rest of my wallet out in this situation.
3) Apple Pay is secure. CPC is not.
4) I think it would be much easier for someone to steal my card than it would be to steal my phone. Tube stations can be busy, of course, and it must be relatively easy for an opportunist to pick up a CPC without the user noticing, whereas a phone would be much harder I reckon.
5) It feels pretty cool. I know it's a frivolous reason, but it does feel very futuristic.

 

[headshot119]

Interesting, thanks. Do you have to request Apple Pay from the cashier / till first to ensure that the reader doesn't just see the value is over 30 pounds and default to 'insert/swipe' mode?

It depends if the retailer has applied firmware updates to there Chip & Pin machines.

Some of them don't turn the NFC reader on below £30 (and some are still stuck at £20), others have it on all the time, but don't show "Present Card" on the screen but it will still work, and others have it all set up fine.

I have a CPC and Apple Pay, and have used both in London. I prefer Apple Pay, because:
1) It's easy to get my phone out and "arm" Apple Pay on the approach to the gateline. It's less easy to dig around in my wallet for the card.
2) I would often have my phone out in these circumstances, it's reasonably natural to do so. By contrast, I'd be highly unlikely to have my bank card out when going through barriers on the tube. I also would be highly unlikely to have the rest of my wallet out in this situation.
3) Apple Pay is secure. CPC is not.
4) I think it would be much easier for someone to steal my card than it would be to steal my phone. Tube stations can be busy, of course, and it must be relatively easy for an opportunist to pick up a CPC without the user noticing, whereas a phone would be much harder I reckon.
5) It feels pretty cool. I know it's a frivolous reason, but it does feel very futuristic.

It'd definitely be hard for me to have my phone stolen on the tube and not notice as I always wear it and have at least one ear bud in listening to music. The sudden lack of music would alert me to the problem.

 

[londonbridge]

As far as I know if you change your travel total after midnight it will be adjusted the next day. The charges are still calculated 0430-0430 and very few people increase the amount due after midnight.

That's right, TFL website says journeys started between 1.30am and 4.30am will show on the following days journey history. I made three bus journeys, one Wednesday lunchtime, followed by one at 1.00am Thursday morning and one at 1.40am. Charged the usual £4.50 in two seperate payments of £3.00 and £1.50 and the final journey shows on my journey history as 'adjustment to previous fares'.