Controversial railway opinions (without a firm foundation in logic..)

[eldomtom2]

My God, when did they imagine that they did have the worlds best passenger service ?

Generally one hears this claim about the interwar period - never with any information about how "best" is determined. Looking at old timetables it certainly wasn't the best for speed or frequency...

 

[yorksrob]

Generally one hears this claim about the interwar period - never with any information about how "best" is determined. Looking at old timetables it certainly wasn't the best for speed or frequency...

Quite.

One can imagine our system being the best for the time.

 

[hux385]

So making them walk from Victoria to Piccadilly will improve connections?

Could they not change at Stockport? Surely being re-routed to Victoria would provide better connections from Sheffield to the wider North West?

 

[Krokodil]

Could they not change at Stockport? Surely being re-routed to Victoria would provide better connections from Sheffield to the wider North West?

Not a lot of use if their destination isn't served from Stockport

 

[AlastairFraser]

So making them walk from Victoria to Piccadilly will improve connections?

It's not them missing the connections usually, it's all the other services using Castlefield that get delayed and then (if you're lucky enough to only be delayed a couple mins by it), you have to leg it to the main station down that narrow corridor connecting 13/14 to it, always rammed with people, like a rat up a pipe.

 

[Turtle]

The problem that many people have is confusing the spellings of 'gauge' and 'guard'....or is it 'guage' and 'gaurd' ?

Was it not George Bernard Shaw who came up with the word "ghoti", pronounced "fish", to illustrate the illogicallity of English spelling:-
gh pronounced f ( as in couGH)
i pronounced i (as in wOmen)
ti pronounced sh (as in sta TI on)

 

[Birkonian]

On on train Greggs is the best idea I've seen on this thread.

Bring it on!

Greggs sell awful, bland food. Give the food franchise to a Wigan bakery such as Greenhalgh's

 

[AlastairFraser]

Greggs sell awful, bland food. Give the food franchise to a Wigan bakery such as Greenhalgh's

One based on county would be amusing.
Greenhalgh's in Lancs, Martins in GM, Warings in Berks, Reeves in Wilts, Wenzels in Bucks etc.

 

[Falcon1200]

Greggs offer such delicious and nourishing food that a sausage roll (meat or vegan depending on preference) should be given free to every passenger.

 

[contrex]

Greggs sell awful, bland food. Give the food franchise to a Wigan bakery such as Greenhalgh's

I always liked Pooles more, but that was when I had just married my Wigan (Swinley) lass.

 

[Howardh]

Greggs offer such delicious and nourishing food that a sausage roll (meat or vegan depending on preference) should be given free to every passenger.

When you're tired and hungry after a long journey, the sausage roll is lying there invitingly all by itself and it's just a quid....

 

[daodao]

Withdraw duplicated services as per Beeching. For example all train services from Leeds to Sheffield should be routed via Fitzwilliam (on the ex-GN route) and passenger trains withdrawn between Barnsley, Wakefield Kirkgate and Castleford, with all stations between Barnsley and Castleford closed.

 

[Thirteen]

When you're tired and hungry after a long journey, the sausage roll is lying there invitingly all by itself and it's just a quid....

Greggs' food and drinks offering isn't great but I get free hot drinks or free sausage rolls on O2 Priority and if it's free, why not go for it!

 

[bussnapperwm]

Greggs sell awful, bland food. Give the food franchise to a Wigan bakery such as Greenhalgh's

Nah, Poundbakery

 

[Bartsimho]

Greggs is good enough food at a good enough price. I know what I can get and I know the quality will be the same wherever I get it from. That consistency sells.

 

[ar10642]

My job title would only be few grand less in Manchester, it's not as dramatic as people think (outside of finance). The only reason I really stay here is family.

It looks like I could *potentially* earn about the same as I am in Cambridge in Manchester instead, but there are fewer jobs and rents in Greater Manchester surprisingly don't look a lot better than here in Sussex. I don't know anyone there, have no connection to the area at all and would mean using hotels to see family.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Withdraw duplicated services as per Beeching. For example all train services from Leeds to Sheffield should be routed via Fitzwilliam (on the ex-GN route) and passenger trains withdrawn between Barnsley, Wakefield Kirkgate and Castleford, with all stations between Barnsley and Castleford closed.

Likewise the WCML from London to Scotland duplicates the ECML so one of those routes is unnecessary and should be closed down.

 

[eldomtom2]

Likewise the WCML from London to Scotland duplicates the ECML so one of those routes is unnecessary and should be closed down.

You joke, but Beeching genuinely thought that and suggests closing the ECML from Newcastle to Edinburgh!

 

[OLJR]

LNER Perks is a much better programme than either East Coast Rewards or GNER Time because it rewards the occasional traveller…

 

[Bartsimho]

Likewise the WCML from London to Scotland duplicates the ECML so one of those routes is unnecessary and should be closed down.

While I know this is a joke having the Primary London-Glasgow services being from Kings Cross and the ECML could be good if the WCML services were all based around the intermediate traffic so Euston-Birmingham-Crewe-Warrington-Preston-Carlisle-Carstairs-Glasgow

 

[swt_passenger]

You joke, but Beeching genuinely thought that and suggests closing the ECML from Newcastle to Edinburgh!

Not so according to the report. He did propose closing all the local stations between Berwick and Edinburgh, but the through main line was to stay open. He also proposed closure of a number of small stations in Northumberland, leaving it broadly as it is today, except he didn’t propose closure of the Alnwick branch, that came quite a few years later.

It was the Serpell report in 1983 that suggested closing the ECML north of Newcastle.

 

[Merle Haggard]

It was the Serpell report in 1983 that suggested closing the ECML north of Newcastle.

The government at the time seemed to be really anti-rail - possibly the 1982 ASLEF all-out strike hadn't helped. As well as Serpell (or possibly part of it - I can't recall) there was the Marylebone Coach-way plan which I recall would enable the total closure of both West and East Coast routes. B.R., having survived Beeching and seen some investment seemed to be on another Government-led death spiral. And the next year, the N.U.M. strike severely reduced Railfreight revenue.

Dark depressing days if you worked for B.R and liked trains.

 

[Mogz]

Splitting up services is the root of all evil! I actually love having ridiculously long train services that no-one would sensibly use end to end. I'm thinking Liverpool-Norwich or Aberdeen-Penzance to name a couple which currently exist.

In fact, we should have more super-long regional expresses! How about...
● Holyhead-Crewe-Derby-Lincoln
● Carmarthen-Birmingham-York-Sunderland
● Blackpool North-Brighouse-Doncaster-Spalding-Peterborough
●Oban-Glasgow QS LL-Edinburgh-Newcastle

There is zero logic to these services, but they would be fun!

Yes!

Just….yes!!!

 

[eldomtom2]

Not so according to the report. He did propose closing all the local stations between Berwick and Edinburgh, but the through main line was to stay open.

Nope, he proposed closure of Newcastle-Edinburgh in the less well-known Development of the Major Railway Trunk Routes.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

The government at the time seemed to be really anti-rail - possibly the 1982 ASLEF all-out strike hadn't helped. As well as Serpell (or possibly part of it - I can't recall) there was the Marylebone Coach-way plan which I recall would enable the total closure of both West and East Coast routes. B.R., having survived Beeching and seen some investment seemed to be on another Government-led death spiral. And the next year, the N.U.M. strike severely reduced Railfreight revenue.

Dark depressing days if you worked for B.R and liked trains.

While the factors causing so much negativity are much as you describe I would suggest that the "anti" feeling was as much from senior civil servants in the appropriate departments (Treasury and Transport) as from elected representatives. For all that many vilify Thatcher in the end, despite her personal disinterest in railways, she decided that BR was best left alone. The mess of privatisation was more due to Major's determination to leave a political legacy even to the extent of ignoring his own advisors on the best way to proceed.

 

[yorksrob]

Withdraw duplicated services as per Beeching. For example all train services from Leeds to Sheffield should be routed via Fitzwilliam (on the ex-GN route) and passenger trains withdrawn between Barnsley, Wakefield Kirkgate and Castleford, with all stations between Barnsley and Castleford closed.

Would Barnsley still havea through service to Leeds ?

Not so according to the report. He did propose closing all the local stations between Berwick and Edinburgh, but the through main line was to stay open. He also proposed closure of a number of small stations in Northumberland, leaving it broadly as it is today, except he didn’t propose closure of the Alnwick branch, that came quite a few years later.

It was the Serpell report in 1983 that suggested closing the ECML north of Newcastle.

Actually, he did suggest it (along with Marylebone - Banbury) in his 1982 TV interview (which is on Youtube somewhere). He looks odd without the moustache !

 

[Merle Haggard]

While the factors causing so much negativity are much as you describe I would suggest that the "anti" feeling was as much from senior civil servants in the appropriate departments (Treasury and Transport) as from elected representatives. For all that many vilify Thatcher in the end, despite her personal disinterest in railways, she decided that BR was best left alone. The mess of privatisation was more due to Major's determination to leave a political legacy even to the extent of ignoring his own advisors on the best way to proceed.

You may well be right, but...

The impression I gained at the time (possibly from frank remarks made at the time by politicians) was that one of the motives behind Thatcher's liberalisation of coach licensing (remember British Coachways?) was that a privately owned express coach network would not only wipe out the (nationalised) National Express network but also have a very destructive effect on British Rail's passenger business, leaving it so weakened as to be easily disposed of. In other words, I think she did 'leave B.R. alone' - but left it to die! For example, I remember immediately after de-reg that there well over a hundred commuter road coaches running betweenLuton/Dunstable and London daily - although the dispute about the original Bedford-St Pancras units (the 317s) and the resulting unreliability of the service was also a factor. But it didn't work long term, except some of the successful TOC franchise bidders were bus companies.

An erstwhile colleague* had been, before I worked for him, the Chairman's bag carrier and purchaser of sandwiches( etc.!) for breaks, during the 1982 ASLEF flexible rostering strike negotiations. He was clear that it was Thatcher's direct orders that B.R. must not concede anything at all to the drivers. However, she then suddenly became aware of the grievous effect on the economy of no-one being able to get into City offices, so issued a very swift 'get them back to work NOW' instruction. Of course, to do this instantly could only be achieved by total capitulation. Result; great bitterness by BR management that the opportunity for any negotiation was thrown away by Thatcher. And she certainly did a U turn!

*the manager I mentioned was one of the best Inworked for, and soon went on to greater things. He became MD of Merseyrail but very sadly died at a very early age about 25 years ago of a medical condition that was, I think, congenital.

 

[The Ham]

However, she then suddenly became aware of the grievous effect on the economy of no-one being able to get into City offices, so issued a very swift 'get them back to work NOW' instruction

If only some modern politicians could also understand that public transport is good for the economy.

 

[swt_passenger]

Nope, he proposed closure of Newcastle-Edinburgh in the less well-known Development of the Major Railway Trunk Routes.

I’m obliged for the correction.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

You may well be right, but...

The impression I gained at the time (possibly from frank remarks made at the time by politicians) was that one of the motives behind Thatcher's liberalisation of coach licensing (remember British Coachways?) was that a privately owned express coach network would not only wipe out the (nationalised) National Express network but also have a very destructive effect on British Rail's passenger business, leaving it so weakened as to be easily disposed of. In other words, I think she did 'leave B.R. alone' - but left it to die! For example, I remember immediately after de-reg that there well over a hundred commuter road coaches running betweenLuton/Dunstable and London daily - although the dispute about the original Bedford-St Pancras units (the 317s) and the resulting unreliability of the service was also a factor. But it didn't work long term, except some of the successful TOC franchise bidders were bus companies.

This was always deluded thinking of the highest order and only absolute ideologues could ever come up with it. Where are all those coach services now?