Converting Freight Only Lines to Passenger Use

[contractador]

Hi,

Quite often I pass the Brentford Branch Line which is a freight only route. A significant number of employers are based at in Brentford at the terminus of this line but I would imagine a significant number of those commuting from the west will end up driving rather than using the train due to the complex connection from the GWML to Brentford.

I was curious to know how easy conversion to passenger use of a line such as this would be. Is it simply a case of "add platforms and go" or are there other items to take into account such as new signalling and other infrastructure? Are there other cases where a line has been converted from freight to passenger service?

 

[Railsigns]

Are far as signalling goes, converting a goods-only line for passenger use might entail fitting AWS and TPWS equipment, adding overlaps beyond stop signals, fitting facing point locks to points and the installation of new trap points at connections from sidings, etc.

It's most likely that a line would be completely resignalled in conjunction with introducing a new passenger service, not just to address the kind of issues I've mentioned but also to install extra signals to enhance capacity.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Freight can easily be converted. In my area Immingham Dock had a workers station with a passenger train service that was even maintained after the direct line was closed to passenger services. Sinfin industrial estate siding had a passenger service in the 90s. They are also industrial stations Redcar British Steel and IBM which are only for commuters among others.

 

[HowardGWR]

I understand Brentford Council want to restart it.

 

[DavidToad]

Sort of relevant - plans afoot to convert the freight line which skirts around Oxford to the Cowley factory for passenger use.

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/11...rains_could_run_on_Cowley_branch_line/?ref=mr

(Not sure if anyone has posted this already)

 

[mister-sparky]

I understand Brentford Council want to restart it.

I'm sure you mean Hounslow Council...

 

[Chester1]

Another issue is speed. Reopening Warrington to Widness or Northwich to Sandbach would require upgrading the track as both are currently limited to 20mph to keep costs low. I am not sure what the maximum speed of the track could be, probably somewere between 40-60mph, fast services would probably require relaying the track and signalling which would be expensive. I dont know whether this would be an issue in Brentford.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

AIUI there can be all kinds of issues. Taking the section of Calder Valley line through Brighouse as an example, reopening this in 1999/2000 required the rebuilding of the bridge carrying the A641 over the line- in spite of the fact that passenger trains regularly passed under when on diversion. I guess the fact that the new platforms were built underneath might have been part of the reasoning too, though.

 

[D6975]

If you want to see just how easy it is (not), take a look at how much it's going to cost to do the Portishead branch and what is involved.

The line to Portbury was all sorted out as a freight branch years ago, so just add a little branch bit near the end to a Portishead Parkway station - easy as pie on the surface, but no.
It's a lot more difficult than most people would imagine, which is why Portishead is still waiting....

 

[berneyarms]

This blog might be of interest regarding the Brentford line:
http://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/201...s-could-be-restored-to-southall-railway-line/

 

[21C101]

Are far as signalling goes, converting a goods-only line for passenger use might entail fitting AWS and TPWS equipment, adding overlaps beyond stop signals, fitting facing point locks to points and the installation of new trap points at connections from sidings, etc.

It's most likely that a line would be completely resignalled in conjunction with introducing a new passenger service, not just to address the kind of issues I've mentioned but also to install extra signals to enhance capacity.

With the Brentford branch, if you had a single train shuttle from a bay at Southall, you might get away with "one train in steam" and no signalling

 

[83G/84D]

If you want to see just how easy it is (not), take a look at how much it's going to cost to do the Portishead branch and what is involved.

The line to Portbury was all sorted out as a freight branch years ago, so just add a little branch bit near the end to a Portishead Parkway station - easy as pie on the surface, but no.
It's a lot more difficult than most people would imagine, which is why Portishead is still waiting....

Do you have a link or point of reference to further information on upgrading the Portishead branch as you state "take a look"?

 

[455driver]

In my opinion one of the 'reasons' Portishead hasn't been done yet is because there are no trains available to run the service yet!
Why get the line ready if you can't run a reasonable service on it.

 

[Parallel]

In my opinion one of the 'reasons' Portishead hasn't been done yet is because there are no trains available to run the service yet!
Why get the line ready if you can't run a reasonable service on it.

I'm quite excited for if/when it opens! As there are already the Weston-super-Mare - Bristol Parkway and the Severn Beach - Bristol Temple Meads routes on the Bristol metro I wonder if they'll just terminate the Portishead trains at Temple Meads, or if they'll extend them to the Severn Beach line? Or possibly elsewhere?

I know it's probably years off yet but I wonder what stock they'd use? Probably 150s after other lines get newer stock after electrification, or perhaps the 143s make their way back to the Bristol metro lines to do a little more work before retirement? I think I'm getting a bit ahead of myself. I'm interested to see which are the old stations planned for re-opening, and if there will be any new stations proposed for the line.

 

[Mark62]

Another issue is speed. Reopening Warrington to Widness or Northwich to Sandbach would require upgrading the track as both are currently limited to 20mph to keep costs low. I am not sure what the maximum speed of the track could be, probably somewere between 40-60mph, fast services would probably require relaying the track and signalling which would be expensive. I dont know whether this would be an issue in Brentford.

Sounds like the line between Doncaster and Grimsby. That's a main line and trains crawl along there.

 

[dysonsphere]

The trouble with the Brentford branch is that you come into Southall from the south side of the fasts so would need a platform 0 in effect, having checked its still there but its a long walk to 3/4 which are the local lines or 2 which is the up fast, and unless its changed recently no footbridge so its up the stairs to the street and down again. I guess a reopening would require ramped or lifts which would add greatly to the cost.

 

[21C101]

The trouble with the Brentford branch is that you come into Southall from the south side of the fasts so would need a platform 0 in effect, having checked its still there but its a long walk to 3/4 which are the local lines or 2 which is the up fast, and unless its changed recently no footbridge so its up the stairs to the street and down again. I guess a reopening would require ramped or lifts which would add greatly to the cost.

The line also stops short of Brentford itself now.

And once a west exit from Heathrow to Slough is built it will be much easier to change at Heathrow and get the Piccadilly line to Boston Manor or Northfields.

 

[dysonsphere]

The line also stops short of Brentford itself now.

And once a west exit from Heathrow to Slough is built it will be much easier to change at Heathrow and get the Piccadilly line to Boston Manor or Northfields.

Sorry I thought everyone on here would be aware ot that having looked on google earth it basically runs to the old bridge abuntment on the main road and theres room for a basic station there if you can persude the recyling company to give up some land and the western most siding which would give a easy connection to the branch and easly protected from the rest of the sidings. Also the branch still seems be doubled tracked till you get to the M4 underpass, how much of this and the sidings is still useable.

 

[455driver]

I wonder what stock they'd use? Probably 150s after other lines get newer stock after electrification, or perhaps the 143s make their way back to the Bristol metro lines to do a little more work before retirement? I think I'm getting a bit ahead of myself. I'm interested to see which are the old stations planned for re-opening, and if there will be any new stations proposed for the line.

Bristol will be 165/166 central by then so it would be 165s used.

 

[21C101]

Bristol will be 165/166 central by then so it would be 165s used.

Assuming that Portishead and Severn beach don't get tacked on to the electrification "valleys" style

 

[Chris125]

I'm quite excited for if/when it opens! As there are already the Weston-super-Mare - Bristol Parkway and the Severn Beach - Bristol Temple Meads routes on the Bristol metro I wonder if they'll just terminate the Portishead trains at Temple Meads, or if they'll extend them to the Severn Beach line? Or possibly elsewhere?

A lot of work has already gone into the future of local services around Bristol including the Portishead branch as part of 'MetroWest', more details including the preliminary business case for phase 1 can be found here

As for rolling stock the 165/166 fleet will be working services through and around Bristol once they've been cascaded from the Thames Valley by electrification.

Chris

 

[455driver]

Assuming that Portishead and Severn beach don't get tacked on to the electrification "valleys" style

Was the Portishead branch ever owned/worked by the Southern railway/ Somerset & Dorset etc?

No, thank eff for that!

 

[21C101]

Was the Portishead branch ever owned/worked by the Southern railway/ Somerset & Dorset etc?

No, thank eff for that!

I'm sure it could be arranged for Uncle Brian to extend the Waterloo - Bristols a little further on if push came to shove.....

 

[HowardGWR]

I'm sure it could be arranged for Uncle Brian to extend the Waterloo - Bristols a little further on if push came to shove.....

Actually it is quite amusing to see the WAT trains at TM. They sort of creep in and creep out and they get shoved down one end of the middle platforms (used to be 6, I can't remember what they number them now). I was waiting for my Cardiff to come in from Bath and reverse. It seemed to me that they hardly announced the presence of the 'interloper'. I like the 159s and felt the urge to get on it for a civilised journey.

 

[Kite159]

Actually it is quite amusing to see the WAT trains at TM. They sort of creep in and creep out and they get shoved down one end of the middle platforms (used to be 6, I can't remember what they number them now). I was waiting for my Cardiff to come in from Bath and reverse. It seemed to me that they hardly announced the presence of the 'interloper'. I like the 159s and felt the urge to get on it for a civilised journey.

If you want a civilised journey which is less busy down towards Warminster, probably a better service if you have an open ticket.

Doesn't it run something like 10 minutes behind a FGW CarPort service?
--

As for the Brentford line, isn't it mostly single track and used regularly by freight?

 

[thenorthern]

Lichfield Trent Valley to Burton-on-Trent has been mentioned a couple of times which would be useful but I can't see it happening soon as CrossCity Line and Inter-City trains don't mix.

Sheetstores Junction to Stenson Junction has been mentioned a couple of times as well but I can't see that one happening either as although if it was upgraded it would save a lot on Nottingham to Birmingham times I don't think any company would want to miss out Derby as a stop.

 

[Tomnick]

Lichfield Trent Valley to Burton-on-Trent has been mentioned a couple of times which would be useful but I can't see it happening soon as CrossCity Line and Inter-City trains don't mix.

Sheetstores Junction to Stenson Junction has been mentioned a couple of times as well but I can't see that one happening either as although if it was upgraded it would save a lot on Nottingham to Birmingham times I don't think any company would want to miss out Derby as a stop.

Both of those are already passenger lines, and at least the former has regular booked passenger traffic if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Bald Rick]

....but I can't see it happening soon as CrossCity Line and Inter-City trains don't mix.

Except between New Street and Barnt Green.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

How much did it cost to re-open Wolverhampton - Walsall?

I can't believe that they subsequently closed this line using some weak argument about capacity studies when most of it is not heavily used except at the two ends.

 

[Bald Rick]

How much did it cost to re-open Wolverhampton - Walsall?

I can't believe that they subsequently closed this line using some weak argument about capacity studies when most of it is not heavily used except at the two ends.

Nothing infrastructure wise. But the service was barely used and a poor use of resources which could be better used elsewhere.