Cost of modelling

[Monarch010]

Am I alone in finding the cost of most items from modelling suppliers to be very expensive, eyewatering in same cases?

I understand the ramifications of Covid, Ukraine war, cost of living crisis and so on to supply lines, but even so, it's becoming pricey.

Rails of Sheffield are currently offering hefty discounts on some of their lines. A response to this, perhaps?

 

[Sun Chariot]

The market has definitely shifted in the past 40 years, from "model railway layout" toward "model collector". The fidelity of detail and accuracy has also moved forward immensely.
Add to that, the technical intricacy of DCC enabled features and it's no wonder costs and retail prices have risen so far.

It's not solely UK. I buy USA outline; I've seen prices rocket.

I try to buy second hand where feasible. If you're able to wait 1-2 years after an item's release, then the prices generally are much more favourable. Bachmann's Ivatt 4 and Riddles 4MT, all five of mine acquired for £45-ish each and all in perfectly good condition.
The flip-side is where UK manufacturers do "limited" runs and then I appreciate it's far less likely to secure one as a bargain.

 

[Class15]

I usually buy second-hand these days, or from Hornby, where a significant number of models (not just railroad) are reasonably priced. New releases cost wayyyyyy too much these days and I only get them occasionally.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Yes I wanted Bachman’s new 4CEP, but also decided I wanted to eat.

When I finally get to build my NSE era South London layout, I estimate the trains alone would set me back a couple of grand

 

[GatwickDepress]

It's a good time to be a HO American modeller though. Secondhand stock is quite cheap - especially freight cars and diesel locomotives - and I've seen some real bargains from top quality manufacturers.

Yes I wanted Bachman’s new 4CEP, but also decided I wanted to eat.

When I finally get to build my NSE era South London layout, I estimate the trains alone would set me back a couple of grand

One of the reasons I went Japanese for N scale is that I just couldn't justify the costs for British outline. Bachmann's RRP for a Class 450 is £400 (give or take a penny) and that's just one four car unit without DCC fitted as standard.

Kato's LNER Azuma has the same RRP, but that is a nine coach train. It might not have all the bells and whistles of the Bachmann model, but I certainly feel like I'm getting more bang for my buck. Obviously, there's a lot of different factors regarding customer bases, cost of shipping, et cetera.

I have a handful of preowned British stock and Revolution's Class 313s preordered, but I've scaled my British plans down to just a humble cameo layout.

 

[4COR]

Yep - echoing the above, unless it's something particular that is released, or it's a particularly good deal, then eBay is my source - even there some second hand prices are well up (and in many cases, well over priced!).

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Remembering when I could buy Bachmann Blue Riband Mk 1 coaches from my local model shop (a rarity in itself now) for £15 each. A bargain by today's standards...

 

[4COR]

Remembering when I could buy Bachmann Blue Riband Mk 1 coaches from my local model shop (a rarity in itself now) for £15 each. A bargain by today's standards...

I have seen very few coaches go at that price on eBay in the last 6-9 months - there was one I auction I saw recently for 10 Mk1 blue ribands for something outrageous - £440 or something...

 

[Sun Chariot]

I have seen very few coaches go at that price on eBay in the last 6-9 months - there was one I auction I saw recently for 10 Mk1 blue ribands for something outrageous - £440 or something...

I think my "record" OO bargains were:
2022. 3 Replica ex-LMS Period 1 coaches, 2 BTK + 1 CK. £9 for the three. All VGC.
2019. 1 Hornby Pullman steel panelled PFK. MIB. £11.20
And an HO bargain this spring: Stewart Hobbies F3B phase1. Nice little model. £10:50. I'll enhance it (e.g. brass handrails).

 

[Class15]

I think my record bargains were:
2022 3 Replica ex-LMS Period 1 coaches, 2 BTK + 1 CK. £9 for the three. All VGC.
2019. 1 Hornby Pullman PFK. MIB. £11.20

If we’re having this discussion:

Class 90 90131 RfD £22
Class 56 56079 Blue £35
2-BIL 2086 Blue £110

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I brought a 2 car Hornby 155 from what was Arding and Hobbs in Clapham Junction for about £50 or so in 2003, and that was brand new.

Carriages used to be £29.99 or something similar 20 years ago.

Think I picked up an entire Virgin HST for 35 quid second hand in 2008. Didn't work though, had to attach the power car to a loco and drag it around my layout for days before the motor kicked back in again

 

[Sun Chariot]

If we’re having this discussion:

Class 90 90131 RfD £22
Class 56 56079 Blue £35
2-BIL 2086 Blue £110

Good work!

 

[Class15]

Good work!

Thanks, and you’ve certainly done a good job with those coaches!

 

[Iskra]

The market seems to be calming now after the boom time during and just after Covid. The initial prices of models are often eye-wateringly high, but there are more models than ever hitting the shelves. A lot of these models are evidently not shifting at the prices asked, so there is significant discounting after only a few months and then often heavy discounting thereafter. Unless it’s something you really want, my advice is to wait for the price to come down.

Or just buy from Accurascale, who are offering top models at reasonable prices, disrupting the market. Bachmann have had to heavily discount their 37’s to compete with Accurascale. Although personally I thought there was nothing wrong with the previous Bachmann Class 37, and they can be found at decent prices.

 

[Titfield]

You can only buy second hand if someone buys it new in the first place.

If the manufacturers have to discount significantly to sell them new then they may not generate the returns to invest in the next range.

I wonder whether the industry as a whole will be able to manage the challenges of the future.

 

[Justin Smith]

Yep - echoing the above, unless it's something particular that is released, or it's a particularly good deal, then eBay is my source - even there some second hand prices are well up (and in many cases, well over priced!).

I tend to buy stuff (N gauge) off E Bay too. Not all of it is in perfect working order it has to be said, but the seller usually either repairs it or refunds so although it's a bit of hassle one is not out of pocket.
I think the price of second hand locos is ridiculous, I wonder if Covid had an effect (reduced production with increased demand ?), but also, are many new models of 1970s BR (e.g. class 40/45/46/55) even still made ? If so can't find them.
Best bargain I got was a Grafar Hall for £40 (incl P&P) which looked a bit scabby in the close up E Bay pics but looks fine on the layout. It has excellent traction and electrical pick up, and it hardly ever derails, even on my tight 1970s layout !

I am a bit flexible about coaching stock, I tend to buy Lima even though it is slightly out of gauge, partly because it's cheap but also I have found they run really well. I try to buy in multiple batches to save on the carriage (often hidden as "free")

I haven't had as much luck with waggons, quite a few seem to derail rather easily and/or decouple. One wonders if sellers get rid of ones which do that on their own layouts ?

Vehicles (and other accessories) I also try to buy in multiples to save on carriage, in fact one can usually buy this sort of stuff for less, particularly 2nd hand, at exhibitions as the sellers are not paying any postage and packing. I was in Rails the other month and got a bargain, they were just putting out a load of 2nd hand N gauge Oxford diecast*, no boxes but otherwise fine, so I bought ten of them at £4 each !

* I only buy Oxford diecast, I like the quality and the fact they're so sturdy, the opposite of 3D printed stuff, they are so weak it's untrue. I bought one on E Bay put it in a Jiffy then in my bag, but the roof had broken off when I got home !

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In the late 1970s, my wife bought the Wrenn Duchess Class 8P City of Stoke-on-Trent with black LMS livery as a special birthday present for me. It was the best of all the models on my layout and confirmed my belief in die-cast models.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I find prices now are becoming stupid in some cases. Just read in latest RM of Bachmann's latest 00 Brush 2 offering. Granted their example is sound fitted, has all the bells and whistles of what is presumably(?) deemed necessary by some of todays modellers/collectors, but at £359 quid it's totally out of range. I'll make do with my earlier Hornby - mazac rot free - examples. I do sometimes think that some of todays models have more 'detail' on them than many professional railwaymen (of the time) would have noticed on the real things (fitters and drivers excluded)!

In the late 1970s, my wife bought the Wrenn Duchess Class 8P City of Stoke-on-Trent with black LMS livery as a special birthday present for me. It was the best of all the models on my layout and confirmed my belief in die-cast models

I have been (re) collecting some of the Wrenn loco's I owned many years ago, but had to sell in the distant past, and one such acquired a while ago was the West Country 34042 'Dorchester'. Granted detail wise, and likely measurement wise, it falls far short of a true representation of the real thing, but as a robust, reliable model, now what, half a century old, its one of the best runners I have, likewise my 1967 built Rivarossi Big-Boy 4-8-8-4. Basic by todays standards perhaps, but none the less a representation of what some of us aspire to within our means. Each to their own.....

 

[RyanOPlasty]

I ordered a mainline J72 from my local model shop when it was announced ( 1976? ). It cost me £6. The Bank of England inflation calculator puts this at £39.24 today. A new Bachmann equivalent is around £120, and is a much better model but is it worth 3 times as much?

A couple of years later I was able to buy 6 Mainline Mk1 coaches for £12 from one of the discounters £2 each or £10.61 in today's money Today's Bachmann equivalent is discounted to around £35 each. Again, a much better model.

I would conclude that we are overpaying today by about 50%. Yes, we are getting a more accurate model but I would say it is worth no more than twice the inflation-adjusted price of what were state-of-the-art models at the time.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Labour costs in Asia outpaced UK's "inflationary increase".
Supply chain costs (transportation, energy, storage) also.
Then add the technical intricacy of DCC enabled features and associated costs of materials and manufacturing.
I think that's why retall prices have risen to the levels we see.

Much as I loved my 1978 Hornby HST and my 1981 Hornby 47712 Lady Diana Spencer, I concede the models are simply not comparable technically nor in fidelity, to what we see in recent years.

 

[Gloster]

Having decided to move up to O for other reasons, it is noticeable that ready to run is not ridiculously more expensive than OO or N and you don’t need so much of it. Wagon kits are a bit more expensive and not much less than ready to run ones; it is a bit annoying to mess up a £45 mineral wagon kit (that will become the coupling trial vehicle), but I like making wagon kits.

I do think that the cost of even the simplest beginner‘s train set looks to damage the influx of new blood. No longer will the train set be taken out from under the Christmas tree and Dad and little Johnny are playing with it on the dining room table before the wrapping is cleared away. “Dad, what am I supposed to do with one wagon?”

 

[GatwickDepress]

Picked up a Roco NS 1600 locomotive for less than £40 unboxed. Quite chuffed with that.

 

[Johnnie2Sheds]

Interesting thread. I stopped chasing manufacturers silly prices a long time ago. The going rate for a SM32 or SM45 live steam locomotive is about £500 for a Mamodesque loco up to £5000 for something exotic. Latest acquision is above, bought from Ebay as a wreck for a little over £100, now refurbished with Radio control.

 

[Gloster]

Interesting thread. I stopped chasing manufacturers silly prices a long time ago. The going rate for a SM32 or SM45 live steam locomotive is about £500 for a Mamodesque loco up to £5000 for something exotic. Latest acquision is above, bought from Ebay as a wreck for a little over £100, now refurbished with Radio control.

Not directly on thread, but prompted by the above: Mamod is closing this month after eighty-eight years. There is a slight hope that spares will continue to be available and possibly some limited production at sometime or other.

 

[Justin Smith]

Labour costs in Asia outpaced UK's "inflationary increase".
Supply chain costs (transportation, energy, storage) also.
Then add the technical intricacy of DCC enabled features and associated costs of materials and manufacturing.
I think that's why retall prices have risen to the levels we see.

Much as I loved my 1978 Hornby HST and my 1981 Hornby 47712 Lady Diana Spencer, I concede the models are simply not comparable technically nor in fidelity, to what we see in recent years.

The other side.....
I know my layout is tight (a 1970s 6ft x 4ft rebuilt one but essentially the same track geometry) but some modern locos (e.g. a Dapol A4 I bought) used to derail regularly before I sold it.
I bought a Minitrix A4 off E Bay which never derails (well hardly ever), and it has plenty of traction and good electrical pick up. And it has plenty of detail enough for me. Pity it's slightly the wrong colour, but I can cope with that ! It only cost me £72 (though it needed new traction tyres).
TBH I wonder how much of this much vaunted extra detail can even be seen by most of us when actually in use, particularly as our eyesight might not be as good as it once was ! As I said up thread, my best ever buy was that "scabby" Hall, but it only looked like that in the close up E Bay pics, on the layout it looks fine.

 

[4COR]

Hornby's price increase confirmed as between 10-12% from 1st Sept....

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Labour costs in Asia outpaced UK's "inflationary increase".
Supply chain costs (transportation, energy, storage) also.
Then add the technical intricacy of DCC enabled features and associated costs of materials and manufacturing.
I think that's why retall prices have risen to the levels we see.

Much as I loved my 1978 Hornby HST and my 1981 Hornby 47712 Lady Diana Spencer, I concede the models are simply not comparable technically nor in fidelity, to what we see in recent years.

That's one reason that I expect Dapol, who have recently resumed manufacturing in the UK, to weather the inflationary storm better than some others.

I agree that the level of detail on modern models is night and day compared to the stuff that was available in the 1980s. One of my big complaints with Hornby is that their "Railroad" range, which on paper was a great idea to offer lower cost models that weren't quite as detailed or therefore delicate and fragile, still has prices at or beyond the £100 mark. This being for models that were developed 30-40 years ago by Lima!

Hornby's price increase confirmed as between 10-12% from 1st Sept....

I don't think it's out of the bounds of possibility that Hornby will go through some sort of collapse, given their repeated mis-steps in recent years. I doubt they'll disappear completely but some sort of pre-packaged administration might well be on the cards. They don't seem to have their finger on the pulse of the industry they're supposed to be the leading light in.

 

[DJ_K666]

Remembering when I could buy Bachmann Blue Riband Mk 1 coaches from my local model shop (a rarity in itself now) for £15 each. A bargain by today's standards...

Mine were all around £20. Some from Ebay and some brand new from Gaugemaster. I have 10 B/G (and I'm on thr lookout for 2 more to boost my 2 rakes to 6 coaches. They're around £30-35 at present)
and one maroon RFO as well as a motley assortment of newer Hornby, Lima and 3 of those really cheap and nasty Hachette ones forming my 'Experimental' rake of coaches. At £4 each I can try ideas out on them first without too much worry.

There are some bargains to be had, a Dapol 73 from Rails for £80 is one. I had a brand new Bachmann peak for £50 at Modelzone when they sold those off. Mine was the last one and was the one in the display cabinet. A good source is 'New Old stock' where a shop has a clearout and finds things they've forgotten about. You often find some gems there.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I don't think it's out of the bounds of possibility that Hornby will go through some sort of collapse, given their repeated mis-steps in recent years. I doubt they'll disappear completely but some sort of pre-packaged administration might well be on the cards. They don't seem to have their finger on the pulse of the industry they're supposed to be the leading light in.

That would be terrible, how do you think they should improve?

 

[Cowley]

That would be terrible, how do you think they should improve?

I’ve moved that discussion here now:

How could Hornby improve?

That would be terrible, how do you think they should improve? mods note - split from this thread It would be terrible for anyone who ended up losing their job as a result, but it wouldn't kill the hobby. They've made so many mistakes that they deserve a boot up the proverbial- hopefully not...

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