Could 350/2s operate Waterloo to Portsmouth services?

[dorsetdesiro]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-442s-storage-refurbishment-and-redeployment.127422/

350/2s could be a good fit for the Portsmouth services (also Weymouths with 444s & 450s) if the 442 project doesn't work out well.

These could have 444 style intercity interiors with 2+2 seating like the LNR 350s, perhaps reclassify as 445 or 451 to differenate from 444 & 450.

On the other hand as SWR has so many 450s, a handful of these could make up a dedicated pool (as GWR are doing with its 387s for HEX) and converted with 2+2 seating?

 

[59CosG95]

350/2s could be a good fit for the Portsmouth services (also Weymouths with 444s & 450s) if the 442 project doesn't work out well.

These could have 444 style intercity interiors with 2+2 seating like the LNR 350s, perhaps reclassify as 445 or 451 to differenate from 444 & 450.

On the other hand as SWR has so many 450s, a handful of these could make up a dedicated pool (as GWR are doing with its 387s for HEX) and converted with 2+2 seating?

Given that the 450/5s totalled 28 units (450043-450070 having 500 added to their number), perhaps the 28 450s numbered 450100-450127 could form that pool of 2+2 units? It'd be an identical number of units as before.

 

[swt_passenger]

350/2s could be a good fit for the Portsmouth services (also Weymouths with 444s & 450s) if the 442 project doesn't work out well.

These could have 444 style intercity interiors with 2+2 seating like the LNR 350s, perhaps reclassify as 445 or 451 to differenate from 444 & 450.

On the other hand as SWR has so many 450s, a handful of these could make up a dedicated pool (as GWR are doing with its 387s for HEX) and converted with 2+2 seating?

None of the 450s would be spare though, surely? If you don’t have the 442s you’d need something extra that isn’t already fully diagrammed.

 

[David Goddard]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-442s-storage-refurbishment-and-redeployment.127422/

350/2s could be a good fit for the Portsmouth services (also Weymouths with 444s & 450s) if the 442 project doesn't work out well.

These could have 444 style intercity interiors with 2+2 seating like the LNR 350s, perhaps reclassify as 445 or 451 to differenate from 444 & 450.

On the other hand as SWR has so many 450s, a handful of these could make up a dedicated pool (as GWR are doing with its 387s for HEX) and converted with 2+2 seating?

If technically possible then could be a good idea. 37 of them so plenty for the expresses to Pompey. Don't need a new class, just make them 450/2s. They could even have a name for the sub fleet, like "Greyhounds"

 

[py_megapixel]

Don't the 350s have 3+2 seating, which was the main reason the 442s are being introduced anyway?

 

[JonathanH]

Don't the 350s have 3+2 seating, which was the main reason the 442s are being introduced anyway?

That is not an insurmountable problem. Other 350s have 2+2 seating - it wouldn't be too difficult to refit the 350/2s.

It doesn't seem obvious that foremost in the mind of the people who decided to bring back 442s was the layout of the seats, a useful byproduct and selling point but not the reason for their return. More like their availability and that they could be introduced sooner than brand new trains (although that hasn't worked out well).

 

[py_megapixel]

That is not an insurmountable problem. Other 350s have 2+2 seating - it wouldn't be too difficult to refit the 350/2s.

It doesn't seem obvious that foremost in the mind of the people who decided to bring back 442s was the layout of the seats, a useful byproduct and selling point but not the reason for their return. More like their availability and that they could be introduced sooner than brand new trains (although that hasn't worked out well).

Wasn't there some campaign from the locals on that line against the 450s because they felt the seating layout was unsuitable for use on a long-distance service?

 

[JonathanH]

Wasn't there some campaign from the locals on that line against the 450s because they felt the seating layout was unsuitable for use on a long-distance service?

Yes, there was

https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no450-portsmouthtrains

http://www.haslemereherald.com/article.cfm?id=131417&headline=Passengers greet return of the No. 442&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2018

http://web.archive.org/web/20160329100855/http://www.no450.co.uk/

but that doesn't mean the operators have to pay attention to them. Indeed, the no450 website seems to have fallen away five years after the change was made.

 

[Bevan Price]

Are 350/2s fitted (or easily fittable) for 3rd rail operation? I thought that only the 350/1s were built with the necessary equipment.

 

[Energy]

Yes, there was

https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no450-portsmouthtrains

http://www.haslemereherald.com/article.cfm?id=131417&headline=Passengers greet return of the No. 442&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2018

http://web.archive.org/web/20160329100855/http://www.no450.co.uk/

but that doesn't mean the operators have to pay attention to them. Indeed, the no450 website seems to have fallen away five years after the change was made.

It is pretty stupid IMO, the journey is only 1.5 hours, the 350/2s manage fine on a similar time or longer journey. One of the points is that 450s are cheaper than 444s so they got moved to take over some Portsmouth when this would make no cost difference as the same number of 450s and 444s were leased by SWT when they did this change.

 

[Romsey]

From memory, the first 20 350's were originally intended for SWT and the Portsmouth Direct. The DfT insised they were fitted for ac traction and went to the Euston outer suburbans. SWT got a consolation prize of 6 standard units.

Yes 350's can be adapted to work on dc. It was done soon after they were delivered to Bletchley depot. One was hauled to Northam and was fitted with pick up shoes and the computer told to accept dc power and not to raise the pantograph. It happily ran overnight test trips on the SW main line.
No doubt 450's could have a pantograph fitted and with a bit of reprogramming work on 25kv.

 

[JonathanH]

From memory, the first 20 350's were originally intended for SWT and the Portsmouth Direct. The DfT insised they were fitted for ac traction and went to the Euston outer suburbans. SWT got a consolation prize of 6 standard units.

No, 32 5-car 450s were ordered for 10-car suburban operation - nothing to do with the Portsmouth line. When the necessary platform extension plan fell through this order was changed into 10 4-car 450s for South West Trains (ie 450101-450110) and 30 4-car 350/1s for operation on the WCML, shared between Central Trains and Silverlink.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-450-variations.96774/#post-1713885

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/flashing-hazard-light-class-331.202315/#post-4494177

 

[Tom Quinne]

As already posted the original batch of Class 350/1 where redirected from SWT to Silverlink & Central Trains in around 2005.

They later worked onto Southern metals on Southern services from Milton Keynes to East Croydon.
The Class 350/2 have all the electrical kit for DC operation, they may need bogie side frame modifications for the shoe gear though.

No technical reason why not, where there is a will there’s a way.

 

[37057]

As mentioned before, they'll need a little more than shoes fitting....