Could a Class 123/124 DMU be Rebuilt From a Mark I Carriage?

[MK Tom]

I'm quite big on schemes to rebuild lost classes, such as the impressive Baby Deltic Project. Many will agree I'm sure that one of the biggest losses of early diesel preservation was the class 124 Transpennine DMUs, and to a lesser extent the class 123 Swindon inter-city sets. Compared to other heritage DMUs, both of these classes have very similar designs to basic Mark I hauled stock, in terms of the carriage body, door/window layout and so on.

So what I'm asking is, what would be the feasibility of re-creating a driving car from one of these classes by way of converting an existing Mark I vehicle? It seems to me it would be considerably more achievable than attempting a complete new-build of something. Furthermore the result could have utility as a driving trailer for preserved lines without run-round facilities.

Please discuss!

 

[acmw421]

Swindon DMUs (including cl. 123/4) are outwardly similar to Mark 1 stock, but have a different profile (if you look at them end-on, they have a slab side, followed by a curved tumblehome at the bottom, whereas Mark 1 stock has a continuously curved profile) and have a completely different structural composition. This article (about cl. 126, also a Swindon DMU type) explains the structural differences:

http://sdps.org.uk/history/integral-construction/

So you wouldn't be able to create a 123 or 124 vehicle from loco-hauled stock unless you just wanted a very vague representation. I suppose you could convert DMU stock, but the problem is that the number of vehicles which have the right profile, length and density is very limited: there's one class 126, and a lone class 120 vehicle; there are also 3 class 119 vehicles which share a profile (though I'm not sure if they use the integral construction method). All of these are, I think, being restored, and I daresay their owners would be reluctant to part with them to make something else!

I suppose you could cannibalise a 116/117 vehicle, as they are reasonably plentiful, but by that stage you'd be building from scratch and reusing the mechanical components, I fear.

 

[plarailfan]

I think it probably would be quite possible to convert MK1 coaches into something resembling these old DMU sets.
There were some differences in the window arrangements and I think Trans-Pennine sets originally shared exactly the same front end as the, later, slightly modified, Glasgow Blue Trains, which might help, as there is one in preservation at Summerlee, that could be used as a template, etc.
The most difficult part, could be find some similar transmission and the, very rowdy, Albion engines.
Drafting the 123's in to combine with 124 units, was the best thing that ever happened - they complemented one another very well indeed.
Here's some pics I took at Huddersfield in the bad old days, before the 123's arrived
https://www.flickr.com/photos/41294071@N02/5430832556/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/41294071@N02/5430833764/
It would be great to enjoy the throaty roar of these DMU's once again !

 

[paul1609]

I'm quite big on schemes to rebuild lost classes, such as the impressive Baby Deltic Project. Many will agree I'm sure that one of the biggest losses of early diesel preservation was the class 124 Transpennine DMUs, and to a lesser extent the class 123 Swindon inter-city sets. Compared to other heritage DMUs, both of these classes have very similar designs to basic Mark I hauled stock, in terms of the carriage body, door/window layout and so on.

So what I'm asking is, what would be the feasibility of re-creating a driving car from one of these classes by way of converting an existing Mark I vehicle? It seems to me it would be considerably more achievable than attempting a complete new-build of something. Furthermore the result could have utility as a driving trailer for preserved lines without run-round facilities.

Please discuss!

As a new vehicle even if only for use only on heritage lines I believe it would have to meet the latest Eu exhaust emmision regulations.

 

[sprinterguy]

As a new vehicle even if only for use only on heritage lines I believe it would have to meet the latest Eu exhaust emmision regulations.

If the power unit is already extant and an existing vehicle is being used as a basis for the project, then I'm not sure there would be an issue: It doesn't appear to have been a concern for the "Baby Deltic" project team.

 

[455driver]

As a new vehicle even if only for use only on heritage lines I believe it would have to meet the latest Eu exhaust emmision regulations.

Use an existing underframe from a 'common' DMU (116 or 117 etc) and fit a new body to it, no need to get involved in all that emissions rubbish!
Okay it wouldnt be very accurate (wrong engines etc) but it would be better than nothing.

I have thought about taking a 117 DMS, strip off the engines/ gearboxes etc and turning it into a 122 DTS, none of which were preserved.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As a new vehicle even if only for use only on heritage lines I believe it would have to meet the latest Eu exhaust emmision regulations.

Use an existing underframe from a 'common' DMU, such as a 117, and fit a new body to it, no need to get involved in all that emissions rubbish!
Okay it wouldnr be very accurate (wrong engines etc) but it would be better than nothing.

I have thought about taking a 117 DMS, strip off the engines/ gearboxes etc and turning it into a 122 DTS, none of which were preserved.