Could the Borders railway feasibly be extended to Hawick or even Carlisle?

[HST43257]

HS2's biggest problem there has been failing to point out why it's being built - that it's primarily to relieve congestion and overcrowding. The speed is effectively a bonus.

In the South and Midlands it’s about capacity relief, but as you get further north (especially if they built to Scotland) it would be more about speed and contesting with flights. Combining HS2 (London to York) and HSUK (York to Glasgow) infrastructure ideas and journey times, I reckon 2h 35 London to Edinburgh and 3h London to Glasgow is possible, so you can see that there’s going to be potential competition with aviation there, especially given the wariness sometimes felt on planes.

 

[Journeyman]

In the South and Midlands it’s about capacity relief, but as you get further north (especially if they built to Scotland) it would be more about speed and contesting with flights. Combining HS2 (London to York) and HSUK (York to Glasgow) infrastructure ideas and journey times, I reckon 2h 35 London to Edinburgh and 3h London to Glasgow is possible, so you can see that there’s going to be potential competition with aviation there, especially given the wariness sometimes felt on planes.

Oh, yeah, certainly later on HS2 has the potential to trash domestic flights, and that's something else that needs to be properly publicised.

 

[yorkie]

Can I ask that if anyone wishes to discuss issues other than potentially extending the Borders railway, this would be best posted in a new thread? If anyone wishes to create any such thread, you'd be most welcome to do so, and you are also welcome to post a link to it from here

Thanks!

 

[92002]

In the South and Midlands it’s about capacity relief, but as you get further north (especially if they built to Scotland) it would be more about speed and contesting with flights. Combining HS2 (London to York) and HSUK (York to Glasgow) infrastructure ideas and journey times, I reckon 2h 35 London to Edinburgh and 3h London to Glasgow is possible, so you can see that there’s going to be potential competition with aviation there, especially given the wariness sometimes felt on planes.

The chances are that HS2 will not be built beyond Preston. Trains will use the existing line to Glasgow and Edinburgh.
From a Borders Railway extention point of view it would make sense to extend it to Hawick, but probably no further. It is after all a commuter railway and was opened up for that.

 

[Journeyman]

The chances are that HS2 will not be built beyond Preston. Trains will use the existing line to Glasgow and Edinburgh.
From a Borders Railway extention point of view it would make sense to extend it to Hawick, but probably no further. It is after all a commuter railway and was opened up for that.

I think this is a very important thing to remember. If you look at the Waverley Line in the past, and the Borders Railway now, they're two entirely different things, and just because the route was a long-distance main line in the past, doesn't mean that's viable or desirable now.

The service in the past was a couple of long-distance through services a day, along with a few locals, but running at low frequency because back then long-distance commuting to Edinburgh didn't exist. Very few people commute from Hawick to Edinburgh even now.

 

[najaB]

I also agree that no one ever considers an actual new line that has never existed which could be designed to actually solve and allow a current and future issue to be resolved. Why does it have to be the rose tinted view of a line which allowed something 60 years so therefore is suitable now?

A bit late in replying to this but it's an important point. Too often the reason behind a proposed project is "there was a railway there before" and things like regeneration or diversionary routes are used to try to justify the desire to reopen a line.

If people truly want to encourage regeneration or reduce carbon emissions then the approach should be to identify the need and draw the lines on the map to meet that need. If the line happens to be near a closed line then great, but I suspect that in a lot of cases the best route is nothing like the old ones.

 

[EllieAquitrain]

Its a classic case of if there had never been a railway there, no one in their right mind would consider it now, but because there once was a railway there, there is this almost ingrained need for perceived wrongs of Beeching to be righted

The "no one in their right mind" caveat covers this, but I reckon you'd still get calls for an extension to Carlisle and/or Berwick from the crayonistas who apparently break into nervous sweats at the thought of buffers!