Could the Hope Valley be better utilised, following the completion of the upgrade scheme?

[yorksrob]

Dare I ask, is there any benefit to just having the service via Romiley going half-hourly through to Sheffield, albeit with the 'stopper' between Ashburys and New Mills being the proper stopper along the Hope Valley, and the other one being a semi-fast one with limited in-fill stops, equally helpful in peak?

Chinley, Edale, Grindleford and Dore seems the correct order for a half-hourly service, so EMR and TPE can be non-stop between Sheffield and Stockport.

Is there much chance of an additional Northern service actually extending to somewhere equally helpful, like Lincoln or even as the Donny stopper, to add some extra cross-Sheffield capacity?

Surely Hope needs to be included in any semi fast. It always seems to get plenty of passengers (moreso than Grindleford anecdotally).

 

[Killingworth]

Surely Hope needs to be included in any semi fast. It always seems to get plenty of passengers (moreso than Grindleford anecdotally).

Not according to the ORR annual passenger number statistics, here for the last 6 years available, 2018/19, 2019/20, 2020/21, 2021/22, 2022/23, 2023/24



Trains cross in the Bamford/Hope area. More buses theoretically offer interchange possibilities in a bus turning circle by Bamford station and Derbyshire CC has been trying to encourage that.

Bamford was skipped by several services until December 2022, as were most of the others, helping to explain the latest increases. (There may be some split ticketing explanations as well, particularly at Grindleford, but they're hard to calculate.)

If Northern could reliably run all their timetabled hourly services more people would have the confidence to plan events using them - most particularly on Sundays. That's the only day TPE don't stop any westbound morning services at Dore based on the old commuter bias of that market. Today it's a leisure dominated railway.

 

[BranstonJnc]

A serious proposition and it is possibly being considered - another Hope Valley station might be better than Edale at some times of day and week.

Problem is inevitably cost. It would require an extra Northern unit with leasing and servicing costs. Then it would need more than one crew to cover 7 days a week to, include training, holidays, sickness - probably at least 5 crews? The annual costs for that one extra unit shuttling between Manchester and Sheffield might be in the region of £1m?

The DfT and HMT are going to want to see good prospects for extra revenue for that.

However, Manchester bound commuters and airport users from Dore wouldn't like it. From 200k entries and exits in 2024/5 34k (down from 39k in 2019/20) were between Dore and Manchester but only 25k between Dore and Sheffield.

I'd be interested to know if you could try to run a half-hourly Manchester - Sheffield via Romiley (albeit one semi-fast), and see if Northern-only fares then actually yield manage a few people off TPE and EMR, who are currently the only 'viable' option on the corridor. And, if it creates new revenue, not least with day visitors to Edale in particular, but also Chinley which is quite underserved...

 

[KN94]

I saw there was a Hope Valley closure on Sunday so didn't travel but couldn't easily find any details as to why. Was this related to any upgrades?

No, probably some prep for the Chapel Milton viaduct work later in the year.

Late to the party but the work this weekend just gone was for work to a bridge which is the only route to some farms and properties, which was so corroded that the weight limit on the bridge was significantly reduced, prohibiting tractors, trucks, etc. It was originally for work to Chapel Milton viaduct but this was postponed after a review of methodology.

 

[Killingworth]

I'd be interested to know if you could try to run a half-hourly Manchester - Sheffield via Romiley (albeit one semi-fast), and see if Northern-only fares then actually yield manage a few people off TPE and EMR, who are currently the only 'viable' option on the corridor. And, if it creates new revenue, not least with day visitors to Edale in particular, but also Chinley which is quite underserved.

Extending the existing New Mills stopper is being looked at as it would 'only' require one extra unit and crew. No extra paths or platforms would be needed on the west side but it's more difficult at the Sheffield end. Bear in mind it doesn't run on Sundays at all at present and unlikely to in the near future when crew availability is problematic and cost is high. That's the day leisure users want to get into the Peak District.

Most times of the day the Northern stopping service undercuts the fares of TPE and EMR end to end in the same hour. The quantity of large items of luggage being carried shows it's having effect.

 

[yorksrob]

Not according to the ORR annual passenger number statistics, here for the last 6 years available, 2018/19, 2019/20, 2020/21, 2021/22, 2022/23, 2023/24

View attachment 182583

Trains cross in the Bamford/Hope area. More buses theoretically offer interchange possibilities in a bus turning circle by Bamford station and Derbyshire CC has been trying to encourage that.

Bamford was skipped by several services until December 2022, as were most of the others, helping to explain the latest increases. (There may be some split ticketing explanations as well, particularly at Grindleford, but they're hard to calculate.)

If Northern could reliably run all their timetabled hourly services more people would have the confidence to plan events using them - most particularly on Sundays. That's the only day TPE don't stop any westbound morning services at Dore based on the old commuter bias of that market. Today it's a leisure dominated railway.

That difference certainly seems to have become more pronounced over the last year.

 

[BranstonJnc]

Extending the existing New Mills stopper is being looked at as it would 'only' require one extra unit and crew. No extra paths or platforms would be needed on the west side but it's more difficult at the Sheffield end. Bear in mind it doesn't run on Sundays at all at present and unlikely to in the near future when crew availability is problematic and cost is high. That's the day leisure users want to get into the Peak District.

Most times of the day the Northern stopping service undercuts the fares of TPE and EMR end to end in the same hour. The quantity of large items of luggage being carried shows it's having effect.

I'm not sure you necessarily need the extra service on Sundays, and the Hope Valley works really allow four an hour + freight, the latter of which has limited Sunday operations looking at recent weeks.

But, there's also the minor complication of the two services via Romiley, probably needing a minor shake-up, so as to create a slight gap at New Mills South Jn every 30 minutes, allowing freight through from either Guide Bridge or Altrincham to at least Chinley and Peak Forest.

Just looking at the passenger usage figures between Ashburys and New Mills. Why are Belle Vue and Ryder Brow so low? Is it a self-fulfilling prophecy of the fact that the service is rubbish so people don't use it? Or is it that alternative public transport is so good?

Reddish North seems woefully underused, not sure if Brinnington is as it looks quite small as a place. Bredbury seems about right, but still, 239,000 pre-Covid looks a bit rubbish. Romiley and Marple seem entirely deserving of something every 30 minutes, and Strines is clearly hourly service territory.

Would there by much reasoning to stop a half-hourly service all stations from Ashburys down to New Mills? In the vain hope of getting more revenue maybe, but also to get the timetable in shape?