Could the line to Keswick ever reopen?

[Dawg]

Having spent the past couple of days in the Lakes I came across the old line to Keswick and remembered that there was a recentish plan for it to be reinstated back to Penrith; was this just wishful thinking or an actual serious proposition?

With only Windermere connected to the central Lakes, I'd have thought this would be a well used line these days?

 

[bluenoxid]

Closer to wishful rather than going to happen in the next five years. Only news story I have about it this year is the DFT telling the local MP that whilst they are aware of the Reopening group, no one from the local Council or LEP have approached them about it in the last few years. This sort of support is integral to getting any movement.

 

[fireftrm]

see this site - support it, perhaps?

http://www.keswickrailway.com/

 

[Dawg]

see this site - support it, perhaps?

http://www.keswickrailway.com/

Thanks for the link - I hadn't realised that BL were pushing for closure in the mid '60's to build the link road.

Still, the Keswick - Penrith section survived Beeching and BL; it was obviously deemed important enough & I'd imagine that tourism to the area is greater than at any previous point in time... Aside from the sore issue of funding, I can't see any reason to oppose this..?

 

[civ-eng-jim]

What's BL?

How does this scheme compare with the reopening of the line between Bere Alston and Tavistock?

 

[snowball]

What's BL?

British Leyland (motor manufacturer). See link "Why did it close?" at the top of the page of the site linked above.

 

[swt_passenger]

Back around 2006/7 or so, this 'proposal' (being pushed by what is basically a one man band) was an object of ridicule in most forums - has anything changed since then?

 

[snowball]

It's gained an elaborate website?

 

[swt_passenger]

It's gained an elaborate website?

Well so did 'Glasgow Trains'! If that website is accurate, their Nottingham - Glasgow service has been running about 5 years now. :roll:

http://www.renaissancetrains.com/glasgow-trains.html

 

[Blindtraveler]

Is there space at Penrith to insert a bay for this to use without sacrifising a busy carpark and bus interchange? Am not familier with the route, so where would this call? Odds on I'd use it if it ran.

 

[yorksrob]

I do hope it could reopen.

With regard to Penrith, I believe it still has its loop platform, and looking at google earth, it looks as though there's still space for an additional track from there to the junction.

 

[snowball]

Is there space at Penrith to insert a bay for this to use without sacrifising a busy carpark and bus interchange?

I'm not familiar with Penrith station but the Trackmaps map shows a third platform with space for 5 coaches.

Am not familier with the route, so where would this call? Odds on I'd use it if it ran.

No idea what stations existed before, but the larger hamlets appear to be Stainton, Newbiggin, Penruddock. Maybe Threlkeld but it's some way from the route.

 

[Starmill]

Considering how jammed Windermere trains can get in summer, and the popularity of the area in general with tourists, I would have expected Penrith - Keswick to be very well patronised around this time of year.

 

[eMeS]

In 1953 I was camping close to the Halt at Embleton to the west of Keswick, and here's a snap showing the local train to Cockermouth with Skiddaw in the background.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Other question is how popular would it be in comparison to the current Stagecoach X4 and X5 Transcumbria bus services, and where in Keswick would the station be?

 

[Welshman]

Whilst I'm very much in favour of railway re-openings, [and there have been several mooted in these columns - eg. the Okehampton line, Skipton-Colne, Amlwch and now this], surely more diesel units have to be ordered, as I presume not all these re-openings would be worked with electric stock.

Otherwise we could end up with another ridiculous "Todmorden Curve" situation!

 

[LDECRexile]

Well so did 'Glasgow Trains'! If that website is accurate, their Nottingham - Glasgow service has been running about 5 years now. :roll:

http://www.renaissancetrains.com/glasgow-trains.html

I fear that website is out of date, not least as it begins: "Glasgow Trains is a proposal by Renaissance Trains to operate passenger services between Glasgow and Liverpool, and Glasgow and Nottingham, from 2009." (my emphasis)

If Renaissance Trains run these proposed services they are very well hidden.

I wish Keswick reopening all the best, but it will be an uphill struggle to get the necessary funding.

 

[swt_passenger]

I fear that website is out of date...

You don't say... :roll:

I was using it as a classic example of a website that was rubbish even when first written, you can't trust them...

 

[ainsworth74]

I was using it as a classic example of a website that was rubbish even when first written, you can't trust them...

Personally I like the WSMR train that's headlining their website...

 

[92002]

Other question is how popular would it be in comparison to the current Stagecoach X4 and X5 Transcumbria bus services, and where in Keswick would the station be?

The original station still exists, around 400 yards from the current town centre.

The trackbed from there to Threlkeld is currently used as a walking route, which would no doubt need to be relocated.

Can't think of any major problems towards Penrith that could not be overcome.

Although a busy place from Easter to September it would probably have to cover the quieter months in Winter.

Interesting to see if the sums would add up.

No doubt Stagecoach would be a main objector to any plans.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

No doubt Stagecoach would be a main objector to any plans.

Unless the franchise goes to Virgin - in which case they could be quite a big supporter (Probably not the kind of route that is suitable for Virgin though).

 

[Dawg]

The line although single track, was far from a backwater route; the fact that it as a single track branch survived the scrupulous examination of Beeching is perhaps testement enough.. There used to be regular trains from the South to Keswick - a typical 12 coach express would arrive at Penrith and half would attach to a loco and head to Keswick; I guess the other half would continue to Carlisle.

The route is very straight, causing few problems for modern stock and is currently in tact between Keswick and Penrith - all the way to the original Station. I believe a large bridge needs to be constructed over the A66



I just scratch my head a little when road building/widening projects are given the go ahead all the time, yet routes like this are ignored.


Yes - Spring to Autumn would be the peak capacity period, however Winter in the lakes is now very popular and perhaps would be a draw to those who didn't fancy driving in bleak conditions. A well timed bus service between Keswick and Windermere again would offer some good links...



I'd love to see it happen .... Not to mention the Coniston line... or the Lakeside route connecting with the main line again - haven't a clue about the condition of those two apart from the obvious road obstacle at Haverthwaite..

 

[Busaholic]

If the route were to re-open and Virgin had the WCML franchise (49% Stagecoach stake) then Virgin might apply to run a through service to Euston ala Blackpool North and Stagecoach might sit on their hands.

 

[railjock]

If the route were to re-open and Virgin had the WCML franchise (49% Stagecoach stake) then Virgin might apply to run a through service to Euston ala Blackpool North and Stagecoach might sit on their hands.

If it did re-open I would imagine it would just be a local shuttle service running to and from platform 3 at Penrith to minimise disruption to the WCML.

 

[Dawg]

In 1953 I was camping close to the Halt at Embleton to the west of Keswick, and here's a snap showing the local train to Cockermouth with Skiddaw in the background.

Ivatt 2-6-0. Great photo. Thanks for sharing

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I fear that website is out of date, not least as it begins: "Glasgow Trains is a proposal by Renaissance Trains to operate passenger services between Glasgow and Liverpool, and Glasgow and Nottingham, from 2009." (my emphasis)

If Renaissance Trains run these proposed services they are very well hidden.

Though on the front page of the site: "The slowdown in the national economy from 2008 meant that a proposal to form Glasgow Trains which was to provide services from Scotland to Blackpool, Liverpool, and Nottingham did not attract investment backing although the project has been revived in 2014."

 

[Carlisle]

Is there space at Penrith to insert a bay for this to use without sacrifising a busy carpark and bus interchange? Am not familier with the route, so where would this call? Odds on I'd use it if it ran.

The disused Keswick bay platform is still in existence at Penrith station

 

[Helvellyn]

The disused Keswick bay platform is still in existence at Penrith station

I'm not familiar with Penrith station but the Trackmaps map shows a third platform with space for 5 coaches.

The current platform 3 is the Down Loop, that starts roughly where the Keswick Line used to branch off the WCML at a triangle junction at Redhills. Also, as Carlisle states, the old Down Bay platform (between platforms 2 and 3) is also still in situ. I don't known how well used the Down Loop still is, but that could potentially be a problem unless it was re-routed on the other side of the supporting wall for the station roof other platform 3.

No idea what stations existed before, but the larger hamlets appear to be Stainton, Newbiggin, Penruddock. Maybe Threlkeld but it's some way from the route.

The stations on the route were Blencow, Penruddock, Troutbeck, Threlkeld and Keswick. Beyond Keswick the line served Braithwaite, Bassenthwaite Lake, Embleton and Cockermouth.

 

[Carlisle]

Yes there is still at least one old road sign I know of showing Blencowe Station on it ,guess there must be quite a few around the uk showing directions to long closed stations

 

[Wikipedia]

I don't known how well used the Down Loop still is, but that could potentially be a problem unless it was re-routed on the other side of the supporting wall for the station roof other platform 3.

As far as I know it isn't really used apart from railtours if they stop in Penrith or during times of disruption. Only 3 services are on the WTT for a Monday (Just picked a day at random) all of which are freight probably being overtaken.