Could the Okehampton Line reopen to passengers?

[BarryD]

There is talk of running the Okehamptons out to Pinhoe to turn around. Whether as a service or ECS I don't know.

Is there not enough capacity to turn them at St James?

 

[DaveHarries]

What signalling arrangements are there? Will Coleford Junction be reinstated or remain as 2 parallel lines from Crediton? Still, I hope they achieve a May opening. Start with a basic service and add improvements later.

Am I right in thinking there is / was a signalbox at Okehampton? Google Earth's view of Okehampton station, if seen in StreetView, shows a box but I don't know if the Dartmoor Railway ever used it: if you zoom in on Google Earth though it looks as if there are things inside the box but I have never been to Okehampton station. I suppose you could have token working Crediton to Okehampton if NR found someone to man Okehampton box though (assuming NR don't remove it).

Is there not enough capacity to turn them at St James?

I wouldn't think so unless you can find a gap in the paths taken by the Barnstaple, Exmouth and Salisbury trains. One answer, perhaps, might be an extra turnback siding at Exmouth Junction.

Dave

 

[221129]

Am I right in thinking there is / was a signalbox at Okehampton?

Yes, that would be correct

 

[Ashley Hill]

Okehampton box hasn't been operational since it closed in BR days (presumably 1972). It could be possible to terminate at Exeter Central and turn back via the position light between there and St James Park.

 

[backontrack]

And add a station at North Tawton while you're at it.

 

[323235]

I was thinking about this the other day, one solution is that they could be terminated in the bay at St Davids (if it is useable), but be timed to connect with the Paignton - Exmouth services. That way you can keep the Okehampton services self contained, and provide a cross platform interchange. Unfortunately I can't see any further through services to St James Park and onwards until the West of England works are undertaken - and finally allowing for Devon Metro to be extended to Honiton / Axminster.

Isn't the bay platform at Exeter St Davids earmarked for hourly CrossCountry use, once the associated works to extend it are complete, obviously that wouldn't completely rule out other use but it might cause extended occupancy issues.

 

[Irascible]

If only they could turn round at Honiton without getting in the way of anything, grumble grumble.

Do we have any idea what services are going to serve Cullompton & Wellington ( if, presumably, the plans to rebuild them actually go ahead ) & where that's going to terminate? if it's an extension of the service that turns around at Taunton currently then that's going to have to turn around in Exeter too ( presumably ).

 

[RPI]

There is talk of running the Okehamptons out to Pinhoe to turn around. Whether as a service or ECS I don't know.

Its the Barny trains that GWR wanted to run to Pinhoe, if you look on real-time trains there are a number of 5Qxx paths from St James Park to St James Park via Pinhoe that are there to use instead of the current St James Park to St James Park via Exmouth Junction sidings.

(This is a rumour now) The reason these are in there is because (and I'm sure @Clarence Yard yard will be able to confirm/rubbish this rumour) was that GWR applied for paths to Pinhoe in service from Barny, then ECS out past the M5 bridge and signal, back into the other platform and then starting from Pinhoe but these were all rejected, but when put in as ECS paths from St James Park they were accepted, with questions then ben asked about why ECS paths were accepted but passenger ones weren't.
Again. The last part above is messrom chat and may just be complete b**locks!

Running them to Pinhoe certainly would be interesting, would it be the first direct service ever between St James Park and Pinhoe?

 

[Gloster]

It could be possible to terminate at Exeter Central and turn back via the position light between there and St James Park.

I think that turnbacks are now normally done at Exmouth Junction in the sidings opposite the box.

 

[RPI]

If only they could turn round at Honiton without getting in the way of anything, grumble grumble.

Do we have any idea what services are going to serve Cullompton & Wellington ( if, presumably, the plans to rebuild them actually go ahead ) & where that's going to terminate? if it's an extension of the service that turns around at Taunton currently then that's going to have to turn around in Exeter too ( presumably ).

I belive the current Cardiff to Taunton services would be extended. A Cardiff Okehampton service would be interesting, reversing in platform 2 at St Davids, doesn't solve the issue of serving Central though

 

[30907]

(Capacity to turn back at St James)

I wouldn't think so unless you can find a gap in the paths taken by the Barnstaple, Exmouth and Salisbury trains. One answer, perhaps, might be an extra turnback siding at Exmouth Junction.

Shouldn't be too difficult, as the Okehampton service will have to be half an hour apart from the Barnstaple which turns there ATM.
Even if Waterloo goes half hourly that should still be possible - but by then we might have the Metro to Honiton....

BTW - on the subject of Yeoford, there will inevitably be poor connections between the two lines, so you might as well change at Crediton.

Running them to Pinhoe certainly would be interesting, would it be the first direct service ever between St James Park and Pinhoe?

No, but the first for 55 years!
Back in SR days there were several peak hour stopping trains that called there (there was even one on Saturdays to get you to SJP for 3pm - but curiously no evening peak Up trains any day.)

 

[RPI]

(Capacity to turn back at St James)

Shouldn't be too difficult, as the Okehampton service will have to be half an hour apart from the Barnstaple which turns there ATM.
Even if Waterloo goes half hourly that should still be possible - but by then we might have the Metro to Honiton....

BTW - on the subject of Yeoford, there will inevitably be poor connections between the two lines, so you might as well change at Crediton.


No, but the first for 55 years!
Back in SR days there were several peak hour stopping trains that called there (there was even one on Saturdays to get you to SJP for 3pm - but curiously no evening peak Up trains any day.)

Very interesting! A colleague of mine said there was an Exmouth to Honiton service in the 80's that reversed in the bay at Exeter Central, it stopped at St James Park on the way from Exmouth so technically that would be a direct service but via Exeter Central! It would almost make sense for SWR to to run to Okehampton extending the Waterloo services, would need a couple of extra units though. Realistically a 6 car 159/5 car 158/9 could split at St Davids with the detaching unit attaching to the passing service from Okehampton

 

[MarkyT]

Its the Barny trains that GWR wanted to run to Pinhoe, if you look on real-time trains there are a number of 5Qxx paths from St James Park to St James Park via Pinhoe that are there to use instead of the current St James Park to St James Park via Exmouth Junction sidings.

(This is a rumour now) The reason these are in there is because (and I'm sure @Clarence Yard yard will be able to confirm/rubbish this rumour) was that GWR applied for paths to Pinhoe in service from Barny, then ECS out past the M5 bridge and signal, back into the other platform and then starting from Pinhoe but these were all rejected, but when put in as ECS paths from St James Park they were accepted, with questions then ben asked about why ECS paths were accepted but passenger ones weren't.
Again. The last part above is messrom chat and may just be complete b**locks!

Running them to Pinhoe certainly would be interesting, would it be the first direct service ever between St James Park and Pinhoe?

I think that turnbacks are now normally done at Exmouth Junction in the sidings opposite the box.

As 5Q paths, these could be contingency for any time the siding(s?) are blocked. Useful but you wouldn't want to do it routinely and frequently as it's operationally restrictive, requiring no down train proceeding west of Honiton. Risk of knock on delay is high reversing on the single line here with a full blockage of the route in both directions while crew changes ends, with any troubles encountered in the process. You wouldn't want to lock in making this particular awkward/risky move by having the advertised stop at Pinhoe. If there was a separate terminating platform or siding at Pinhoe, it would be a very different matter.

Edit: Or elsewhere. It's not the use of the single line that's problematic, it's stopping and reversing on it. The second platform at Cranbrook might be constructed early and brought into use as a reversing platform with just the west loop points installed and with the block divided so trains can approach Cranbrook from opposing directions simultaneously.

 

[RPI]

As 5Q paths, these could be contingency for any time the siding(s?) are blocked. Useful but you wouldn't want to do it routinely and frequently as it's operationally restrictive, requiring no down train proceeding west of Honiton. Risk of knock on delay is high reversing on the single line here with a full blockage of the route in both directions while crew changes ends, with any troubles encountered in the process. You wouldn't want to lock in making this particular awkward/risky move by having the advertised stop at Pinhoe. If there was a separate terminating platform or siding at Pinhoe, it would be a very different matter.

The section between Honiton and Pinhoe is split by the signals at Fenton, so although its all single track it is technically two sections, during normal times the 16:39 St Davids Honiton terminator departs Pinhoe once the 16:24 St Davids to Waterloo has passed Feniton. Not much use for two trains in opposite directions but it would allow the shunt to take place as long as there was nothing in the section between Feniton and Pinhoe.

What I forgot to mention earlier is that currently only a handful of Exeter Drivers and train managers sign past Exmouth Junction, I dont believe there are any conductors that do so its a bit pointless anyway at the moment.
As a class 5 it would be DOO anyway

The section between Honiton and Pinhoe is split by the signals at Fenton, so although its all single track it is technically two sections, during normal times the 16:39 St Davids Honiton terminator departs Pinhoe once the 16:24 St Davids to Waterloo has passed Feniton. Not much use for two trains in opposite directions but it would allow the shunt to take place as long as there was nothing in the section between Feniton and Pinhoe.

What I forgot to mention earlier is that currently only a handful of Exeter Drivers and train managers sign past Exmouth Junction, I dont believe there are any conductors that do so its a bit pointless anyway at the moment.
As a class 5 it would be DOO anyway

Also the contingency in disruption could be to terminate at St James Park as now and reverse at Exmouth Junction

 

[Brush 4]

Sounds like all these reversing/disruption issues might be solved by reinstating one of both of the centre roads at Central. As loops or as sidings from the London end or, one loop and one siding. Just one road would probably be enough though.

 

[RPI]

Sounds like all these reversing/disruption issues might be solved by reinstating one of both of the centre roads at Central. As loops or as sidings from the London end or, one loop and one siding. Just one road would probably be enough though.

Just making the Up Waterloo bidirectional would be a start!

 

[Ashley Hill]

The terminating of trains at St James Park is just a political thing anyway. In the past trains terminated at Exeter Central and either crossed over using the London end crossover or ran up straight to Exmouth Jct. Timetabling would sort out the problem by using all 3 reversing options and leaving St James out of the equation all together.

 

[RPI]

The terminating of trains at St James Park is just a political thing anyway. In the past trains terminated at Exeter Central and either crossed over using the London end crossover or ran up straight to Exmouth Jct. Timetabling would sort out the problem by using all 3 reversing options and leaving St James out of the equation all together.

Its probably just making extra stops because they can, generally they run up the bank at xx42 with the (fast) Exmouths generally following at xx48/50, going to St James to terminate probably buys an extra minute or so to get out of the way of the Exmouth with the guard doing the walk through etc at St James Park

 

[Amlag]

NR Contractors today 3/11 have cut down and cleared young trees and scrub that has been allowed to grow on the long disused down island platform at Yeoford. This has been done before in the past and in any case allowing trees to grow on platforms, disused or not, is a poor management practice.

 

[dciuk]

(Direct trains from St James Park to Pinhoe)

No, but the first for 55 years!
Back in SR days there were several peak hour stopping trains that called there (there was even one on Saturdays to get you to SJP for 3pm - but curiously no evening peak Up trains any day.)

Which would make it the first since Pinhoe re-opened in 1983. That is assuming these trains would still call at St James Park, or was the plan to serve Pinhoe instead of St James Park?

Is there the capacity based on One Train Working between Crediton and Okehampton to run an hourly service? If I recall from the Sunday Services it takes an hour or more there and back. Could line speads be increased to allow this? I seam to recall some time ago that part of the line had been laid to 125mph standard while testing engineering equipment.

 

[RPI]

(Direct trains from St James Park to Pinhoe)



Which would make it the first since Pinhoe re-opened in 1983. That is assuming these trains would still call at St James Park, or was the plan to serve Pinhoe instead of St James Park?

Is there the capacity based on One Train Working between Crediton and Okehampton to run an hourly service? If I recall from the Sunday Services it takes an hour or more there and back. Could line speads be increased to allow this? I seam to recall some time ago that part of the line had been laid to 125mph standard while testing engineering equipment.

I believe its possible to run hourly to the proposed Okehampton Parkway Station with not calling at Sampford Courtenay and Yeoford, timing runs were carried out a couple of years back, using a 153 of all things!

 

[dciuk]

I believe its possible to run hourly to the proposed Okehampton Parkway Station with not calling at Sampford Courtenay and Yeoford, timing runs were carried out a couple of years back, using a 153 of all things!

That would appear to rule out an hourly service in May 2021. Perhaps a 2 hourly service could be pathed in between the Barnstaple services to give 3 trains per 2 hours from Exeter to Crediton on something like a 25; 35; 60 minute frequency which I think would just about give enough time to reach St James Park and Exmouth Junction at the Exeter end with just using 1 unit. Is the plan to use Class 158's that have been freed up from the mainline by the extra castle HST's?

 

[RPI]

That would appear to rule out an hourly service in May 2021. Perhaps a 2 hourly service could be pathed in between the Barnstaple services to give 3 trains per 2 hours from Exeter to Crediton on something like a 25; 35; 60 minute frequency which I think would just about give enough time to reach St James Park and Exmouth Junction at the Exeter end with just using 1 unit. Is the plan to use Class 158's that have been freed up from the mainline by the extra castle HST's?

Not heard anything about proposed stock

 

[yorksrob]

Well, it's certainly excellent news in dark times. If nothing else such works will help to prevent a deterioration of the infrastructure and avoid the associated costs with it.

Not sure it will convince many people to use it though.

It really depends how well they're timed. It's only a few less than the S&C which does ok, although 2 hourly would be better.

 

[AndyB28]

There's a long article about what's hoped for by some to be found in the Moorlander at: https://themoorlander.co.uk/oke-rail-update-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel/:

The article highlights - inter alia - the work of the Dartmoor Railway Supporters Association (DRSA), particularly in maintaining the current Okehampton station in what looks to me to be a surprisingly good state.

Apologies for being a bit behind the times but I've only just caught up with this one! I was just curious because the article seems a little more thorough (certainly longer) than the usual local press efforts. Do we know Mr Partridge? He certainly gives this forum a mention.

 

[davetheguard]

It really depends how well they're timed.

And if they are able to be squeezed in beyond St. David's, up the hill to Exeter Central, which is much closer -as the name implies- to the city centre.

 

[yorksrob]

And if they are able to be squeezed in beyond St. David's, up the hill to Exeter Central, which is much closer -as the name implies- to the city centre.

Yes, that helps. Perhaps tie them up woth another service as a cross-Exeter.

 

[Gloster]

Yes, that helps. Perhaps tie them up woth another service as a cross-Exeter.

The trouble is that there are already several services vying to go up the bank to Central: along the coast from Newton Abbot/Paignton and even Plymouth, from Barnstaple and a proposed one from Taunton. Beyond Central there are just the Exmouths and a limited number of trains along the mainline.

 

[yorksrob]

The trouble is that there are already several services vying to go up the bank to Central: along the coast from Newton Abbot/Paignton and even Plymouth, from Barnstaple and a proposed one from Taunton. Beyond Central there are just the Exmouths and a limited number of trains along the mainline.

Pity we can't send them to Seaton or Lyme Regis !

 

[fgwrich]

Pity we can't send them to Seaton or Lyme Regis !

Feniton - Sidmouth I feel would have been the best one to have kept - and would have been a suitable end destination (I believe the buses around there are always pretty busy).