Could we see a return to "essential travel only" messaging?

[yorksrob]

We seem to be allowed to walk in the open country side with a friend.

Since my friends tend to be a journey away, I will be using rail to get there.

 

[_toommm_]

So could I reasonably get a train to North Yorkshire e.g. from Leeds to Settle, to allow me to exercise; and do you think I would get stopped? I've not seen any concrete definitions of essential travel yet from the government.

I could always use my key worker letter as an excuse though

 

[185143]

So could I reasonably get a train to North Yorkshire e.g. from Leeds to Settle, to allow me to exercise; and do you think I would get stopped? I've not seen any concrete definitions of essential travel yet from the government.

I could always use my key worker letter as an excuse though

I wouldn't have thought that would be unreasonable.

If someone lived in Dundee (for example) and wanting to go to Penzance for a swim and by pure coincidence managed to end up on an XC HST , that may well be seen as taking the P a bit.

I'd suppose it depends how comfortable you'd feel justifying it if you were stopped. "I live in a 1 bedroom flat in the city centre, I'm going walking in the hills for both my physical and mental health" sounds fair enough.

 

[_toommm_]

I wouldn't have thought that would be unreasonable.

If someone lived in Dundee (for example) and wanting to go to Penzance for a swim and by pure coincidence managed to end up on an XC HST , that may well be seen as taking the P a bit.

I'd suppose it depends how comfortable you'd feel justifying it if you were stopped. "I live in a 1 bedroom flat in the city centre, I'm going walking in the hills for both my physical and mental health" sounds fair enough.

Cheers for that! I’ve just found something which says to that effect on the government website so like you say it should be justified.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2020 ==

We seem to be allowed to walk in the open country side with a friend.

Since my friends tend to be a journey away, I will be using rail to get there.

I've just found this on the gov.uk website incase you ever get questioned (the bolding is mine):

Living safely with respiratory infections, including COVID-19

Guidance for living safely with respiratory infections, including coronavirus (COVID-19).

www.gov.uk

You should avoid travelling in or out of your local area, and you should look to reduce the number of journeys you make. However you can and should still travel for a number of reasons, including:

• travelling to work where this cannot be done from home
• travelling to education and for caring responsibilities
• hospital GP and other medical appointments or visits where you have had an accident or are concerned about your health
• visiting venues that are open, including essential retail
• exercise, if you need to make a short journey to do so

 

[yorksrob]

Cheers for that! I’ve just found something which says to that effect on the government website so like you say it should be justified.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2020 ==



I've just found this on the gov.uk website incase you ever get questioned (the bolding is mine):

Thanks, that's useful info.

 

[221129]

So could I reasonably get a train to North Yorkshire e.g. from Leeds to Settle, to allow me to exercise; and do you think I would get stopped? I've not seen any concrete definitions of essential travel yet from the government.

I could always use my key worker letter as an excuse though

Seeing as there is no actual law banning the use of public transport, I personally would tell any nosey train crew or anyone that isnt a Police Officer to mind their own business.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I live in West Sussex, and will I still be able to travel (by car) to East Sussex, Surrey, Hampshire and Kent from Thursday for exercise?

I believe the government only advises against doing so, not mandating it by law.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Cheers for that! I’ve just found something which says to that effect on the government website so like you say it should be justified.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2020 ==



I've just found this on the gov.uk website incase you ever get questioned (the bolding is mine):

Looks like the wording has changed (the bolding is mine)

Living safely with respiratory infections, including COVID-19

Guidance for living safely with respiratory infections, including coronavirus (COVID-19).

www.gov.uk

11. Travel

If you live in England, you cannot travel overseas or within the UK, unless for work, education or other legally permitted reasons, and you should look to reduce the number of journeys you make. However you can and should still travel for a number of reasons, including:

• travelling to work where this cannot be done from home
• travelling to education and for caring responsibilities
• to visit those in your support bubble - or your childcare bubble for childcare
• hospital, GP and other medical appointments or visits where you have had an accident or are concerned about your health
• to buy goods or services from premises that are open, including essential retail
• to spend time or exercise outdoors - this should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space)
• attending the care and exercise of a pet, or veterinary services

If you need to travel we encourage you to walk or cycle where possible, and to plan ahead and avoid busy times and routes on public transport. This will allow you to practise social distancing while you travel.

That makes it pretty clear to me that using the train to go walking or cycling is very much permitted and perhaps even encouraged.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Looks like the wording has changed (the bolding is mine)

Living safely with respiratory infections, including COVID-19

Guidance for living safely with respiratory infections, including coronavirus (COVID-19).

www.gov.uk

That makes it pretty clear to me that using the train to go walking or cycling is very much permitted and perhaps even encouraged.

Most of this debate is of course based on the hypothetical situation where someone in authority actually challenges you. (The chances of encountering one being very slim, if the first lockdown is anything to go by).
Unless it is a police officer, are we legally obliged to answer any questions?
And what exactly does ‘local’ mean - is there a legal definition? There are airports in Essex and Surrey called London Stansted and London Gatwick. On a global perspective, they could be described as ‘local’ to London...

 

[Bantamzen]

Looks like the wording has changed (the bolding is mine)

Living safely with respiratory infections, including COVID-19

Guidance for living safely with respiratory infections, including coronavirus (COVID-19).

www.gov.uk

That makes it pretty clear to me that using the train to go walking or cycling is very much permitted and perhaps even encouraged.

Good spot, I'll be bookmarking that because you know someone somewhere is going to be challenging people travelling.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Why have they banned people leaving the country?

 

[221129]

Why have they banned people leaving the country?

They haven't.

 

[Jamiescott1]

They haven't.

Apart from a few exemptions

"
If you live in England, you cannot travel overseas or within the UK, unless for work, education or other legally permitted reasons, "

 

[Sprinter153]

Some crude ‘essential travel’ signs have appeared at Stowmarket this week, in an example of someone taking it upon themselves to enforce what they think the rules should be:

https://twitter.com/busandtrainpage/status/1323624393537425410?s=21

Seen at Stowmarket Station. @GreaterAngliaPR is this official policy, and @BTPEAnglia since the lockdown has not been voted through Parliament yet are the contents of the notice legal and enforceable? Even when it is are they? Pic credit Anglia Gen FB

Image shows a clearly homemade A4 sign, typed in SHOUTY CAPITALS and mismatching font sizes in Times New Roman. The text reads: As of Thursday 5th November until Wednesday 2nd of December please only travel if your journey is ESSENTIAL, due to the current wave of COVID 19 anyone not travelling will be asked to leave. This is for the health and safety of passengers and staff. Trainspotting and train watching is not permitted.

 

[Horizon22]

Apart from a few exemptions

"
If you live in England, you cannot travel overseas or within the UK, unless for work, education or other legally permitted reasons, "

The key word being "unless". It's a lockdown of course unnecessary travel abroad is also included.

 

[Jamiescott1]

The key word being "unless". It's a lockdown of course unnecessary travel abroad is also included.

Unnecessary travel abroad was not included during the first lockdown
Whats the justification for it? Someone on furlough going home to Poland for a month then quarantine on return in December when lockdown is over?

 

[221129]

Unnecessary travel abroad was not included during the first lockdown
Whats the justification for it? Someone on furlough going home to Poland for a month then quarantine on return in December when lockdown is over?

The regulations mention nothing about overseas travel.

 

[Watershed]

Why have they banned people leaving the country?

They say it's banned, but if you have a reasonable excuse for being outside of the place you live, there's nothing stopping you from leaving the country in doing so.

Wanting to meet up with someone in compliance with the Regulations restricting gatherings would be quite lawful, even if it involves a long (and possibly overseas!) journey. Of course the Regulations do not have extraterritorial jurisdiction, and that includes other parts of the UK than England.

The "ban" on leaving and remaining outside of home is totally superfluous given the vast number of enumerated (and potential non-enumerated) excuses. It's one of those laws they only put on the books to use as a catch-all against people doing things they don't like.

 

[SargeNpton]

I wouldn't have thought that would be unreasonable.

If someone lived in Dundee (for example) and wanting to go to Penzance for a swim and by pure coincidence managed to end up on an XC HST , that may well be seen as taking the P a bit.

I'd suppose it depends how comfortable you'd feel justifying it if you were stopped. "I live in a 1 bedroom flat in the city centre, I'm going walking in the hills for both my physical and mental health" sounds fair enough.

Different restrictions of course in Scotland. Didn't Ms Sturgeon say that Scots should not travel to England.

 

[221129]

Different restrictions of course in Scotland. Didn't Ms Sturgeon say that Scots should not travel to England.

She can say what she likes, doesnt make it law.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Some crude ‘essential travel’ signs have appeared at Stowmarket this week, in an example of someone taking it upon themselves to enforce what they think the rules should be.

That has now been removed, according to further tweets this morning.

 

[bramling]

Some crude ‘essential travel’ signs have appeared at Stowmarket this week, in an example of someone taking it upon themselves to enforce what they think the rules should be:

https://twitter.com/busandtrainpage/status/1323624393537425410?s=21

View attachment 85450

Image shows a clearly homemade A4 sign, typed in SHOUTY CAPITALS and mismatching font sizes in Times New Roman. The text reads: As of Thursday 5th November until Wednesday 2nd of December please only travel if your journey is ESSENTIAL, due to the current wave of COVID 19 anyone not travelling will be asked to leave. This is for the health and safety of passengers and staff. Trainspotting and train watching is not permitted.

Doesn’t reflect well on the person who made that.

 

[nedchester]

Seeing as there is no actual law banning the use of public transport, I personally would tell any nosey train crew or anyone that isnt a Police Officer to mind their own business.

To be honest you don't have to tell the police either the purpose of your journey. Just be polite that's all.

 

[Trackman]

To be honest you don't have to tell the police either the purpose of your journey. Just be polite that's all.

I know I don't have to, but it just saves aggravation and unnecessary delay.
If it was a member of staff, that would be a different matter and I would be straight on the defensive.

 

[APT618S]

Looks like the wording has changed (the bolding is mine)

Living safely with respiratory infections, including COVID-19

Guidance for living safely with respiratory infections, including coronavirus (COVID-19).

www.gov.uk

That makes it pretty clear to me that using the train to go walking or cycling is very much permitted and perhaps even encouraged.

Thanks for posting this.
I agree with your comments as in the first para it states:
"However you can and should still travel for a number of reasons, including: ......" (my bold), rather than using for example the word "may".

 

[LowLevel]

Just had a work email update confirming no change to the current message, which is Travel Safe or something along those lines. Nothing about discouraging travel or essential travel.

 

[Huntergreed]

I see Sturgeon is considering legislating “essential only” travel restrictions to ensure compliance.

She lost my vote months ago, but this is another reason to add to the list.

 

[Scotrail12]

I see Sturgeon is considering legislating “essential only” travel restrictions to ensure compliance.

She lost my vote months ago, but this is another reason to add to the list.

Essential travel only to England/abroad or within Scotland?

If it’s the latter, how can she justify opening cafes, shops and restaurants in city centres? That would surely be discriminatory to non-drivers?

 

[Mag_seven]

Just had a work email update confirming no change to the current message, which is Travel Safe or something along those lines. Nothing about discouraging travel or essential travel.

For those railway employees with PRIV the latest guidance is as follows:

Use of Rail Staff Travel leisure facilities during the Covid-19 period - update 4 November 2020

You can still travel by train during a lockdown but should do so only for reasons as outlined in government advice. This advice may be different between England, Scotland and Wales, and there may be variations in different areas within each country.

If you are travelling by train, the rail industry is doing all it can to ensure that you can travel with confidence, including undertaking additional cleaning and placing hand sanitiser at key locations. Please follow any specific guidance issued by your Train Operating Company. Specifically, we ask that you:

• Travel at quieter times so that operators can ensure there is capacity for essential workers and other commuters.
• Wash your hands before and after your journey and carry hand sanitiser with you if you can.
• Wear a face covering (unless you are exempt), both inside rail stations and on trains.
• Buy your ticket before travel using contactless payment if possible.

You must also ensure you comply with the Staff Travel Restrictions and any Supplementary Restrictions as published on the Where Can I Go and Restrictions page of the Rail Staff Travel website. These are updated frequently as Train Operating Companies adapt to the changing situation.

News

This page contains our important messages, most recent first.

www.raildeliverygroup.com

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Essential travel only to England/abroad or within Scotland?

If it’s the latter, how can she justify opening cafes, shops and restaurants in city centres? That would surely be discriminatory to non-drivers?

She didn't say, but I reckon it'll be legislating that there will be no travel without a reasonable excuse between level 0/1/2 areas and level 3/4 areas.

Which, of course, is entirely unenforceable.