Hi guys wondering if you can help me I've had 3 problems with trains in the past 12 months... 1 was because I didn't realise I couldn't use my oyster on a certain journey and I received a fine in 2014. But then in February I was going threw some family difficulties and got on a train without a ticket "stupid I know" I was told I would receive a letter in a few months but I never did, and then I was on the train from guildford to worcester park got asked for a ticket and at the time I thought I had lost my wallet on the station so yes my details were taken again!!! Stupid thing is I had just put my wallet in the wrong pocket of my bag.... question is I rung the southwest trains prosecution team and they said I'll more than likely get a court summons so could anyone tell me what will happen to me and will I get sent to prison???
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Couldn't find ticket, details taken but later found ticket. Any help?
- Thread starter jay123
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
No. You will not go to prison.
The worst that could happen to you is a prosecution that will stay on your record for one year, along with a fine. If you are lucky, if you write to the prosecutions department and explain that you had misplaced your ticket, they will ask for a sum of money to settle the matter without it going to court.
But just to repeat - you will not go to prison over this.
gray1404
Established Member
Hang on though, there is such a thing as being reasonable. Now please I don't want anyone replying saying that he was unable to produce a ticket etc etc etc... (change the record). We know what. And given this was a totally genuine mistake because the OP did have a ticket, which is brought before the journey, then it would be nice if the TOC would see this as a simple oversight and use some discretion. I think, given that he did have a ticket, which should show the time it was brought at (i.e. before the journey started) they should really drop the case.
He has been reasonable and called them and for them to reply saying he will mostly likely get a court summons is totally unreasonable. It is not effective communication in any way, nor does it take account of all of the information or any mitigating circumstances. It sounds like they didn't even request that he wrote in explaining and to enclose a copy of the ticket.
Personally, I would do the above. I so would not offer, at this stage, any money to them. I would like to think that good customer service in light of the circumstances would prevail given that did actually have a ticket and had paid your fare.
He has been reasonable and called them and for them to reply saying he will mostly likely get a court summons is totally unreasonable. It is not effective communication in any way, nor does it take account of all of the information or any mitigating circumstances. It sounds like they didn't even request that he wrote in explaining and to enclose a copy of the ticket.
Personally, I would do the above. I so would not offer, at this stage, any money to them. I would like to think that good customer service in light of the circumstances would prevail given that did actually have a ticket and had paid your fare.
Yeah like the one last year and the one in February was my fault for being stupid and obviously not thinking due to family issues but either way I couldn't get out the station at guildford without a ticket so I would have payed for one... and then with regards to my wallet it was abit stupid because I had already left it in my ex's bag and only just got it back that morning, she was the one who got my ticket for me.. I really don't have much luck this year
the sniper
Established Member
- Joined
- 4 Sep 2007
- Messages
- 3,498
You'd think a loyal customer of a revenue protection department would receive better treatment, wouldn't ya... :roll:
Does the OP still have the ticket that they subsequently found...?
The problem is that producing a ticket after the event doesn't prove that (s)he had it at the time; nor that (s)he bought it in the first place - e.g. it could have been a ticket picked up off the floor.
Flamingo
Established Member
- Joined
- 26 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 6,806
One can only presume you don't want that reply as it is the one unanswerable argument, and being vicariously indignant on the OP's behalf doesn't alter it one bit.
As regards the OP, how did you pay for the ticket, and if by card, do you have any receipt showing you paid for it with your card, and that number ticket? At this stage, the more evidence you can gather that you did buy the ticket (and not pick it up off the floor) the better.
Last edited:
Quality!
gray1404
Established Member
Maybe because it would be nice to totally help the OP, focusing on that and actually getting the case dropped at no further cost to them, rather then come up with the sort of arguments Revenue Protection would come up with.
You maybe I just live in the real world as opposed to you. I accept that genuine mistakes, just as mislaying something does actually happen to most people at some point.
The ticket will have the time/date printed on it so it will be possible to prove it was brought before travel.
I would say that the burden to prove the "ticket was not picked up off the floor, that he was not traveling with a friend and was given his friends ticket etc..." is not actually on him. From that it appears, he was traveling alone. Could even apply that line then to customers who are able to produce tickets (how do I know your friends at the other end of the train didn't just give you that ticket.)
Also, I wonder id there are any mitigating circumstances e.g. medical reasons/conditions, that might have impacting on you not being able to lay your hands on your ticket when requested.
Last edited:
You say 'change the record', but you are making arguments that have been made (and failed) innumerable times before. The legal requirement is to show your ticket on demand - plain and simple. If you can't (and there was an opportunity to purchase before you boarded) then you are guilty - plain and simple.
The time stamp on the ticket doesn't prove that the OP purchased the ticket. Even if (s)he can prove that they bought it, they can't prove that they had it on them at the time - it could have been 'shared' between two people, it could have been at home.
gray1404
Established Member
Yes, but there is such a thing as being reasonable and what is the OP is telling the truth that they had temperately mislaid it. My academic background is in law, so I accept what you are saying about being unable to produce it at the time. However, there is such a thing as being reasonable and mitigating circumstances. Yes, we could look at this as a very clear cut issue, but I'd rather fight on behalf of the OP, what if their situation is actually genuine.
I would suggest mitigation would only go so far given the previous 'issues' the OP has faced.
That is why I said above that it is possible (maybe even likely) that the TOC will settle the matter out of court. To expect the OP to get off without any penalty at all is exceedingly optimistic (bordering on unrealistic), given that the TOC have already incurred costs to investigate the matter.
gray1404
Established Member
It is also a forum where we can agree to differ and exchange our views. However, it would be nice if we could see what can be done for the OP in the situation they are in - given there currently seems to be a whole Revenue Protection team against them at SWT at the moment.
Last edited by a moderator:
CC 72100
Established Member
- Joined
- 23 Jan 2012
- Messages
- 3,819
Really? :roll:
You may as well have posted "hey OP, invent a story to get yourself off the hook".
There's helping and then there's what you're doing...
I think the sniper and Flamingo's is much more realistic advice and probably useful then being prompted to add in additional 'elements' like you advocate.
matt_world2004
Established Member
- Joined
- 5 Nov 2014
- Messages
- 4,578
Wouldn't the ticket have the date and time printed on it. And assuming the ticket was printed just before the OP boarded the train It would prove his story.
I think if you enclosed a scanned copy of the ticket when responding to the complaint. it would be highly officious for SWT to go ahead with a prosecution unless they had reasonable suspicion that the ticket was used by someone else.
I think if you enclosed a scanned copy of the ticket when responding to the complaint. it would be highly officious for SWT to go ahead with a prosecution unless they had reasonable suspicion that the ticket was used by someone else.
Last edited:
gray1404
Established Member
Your entitled to your opinion. No matter how flawed it might be. But seriously, please don't put words into my mouth. I never once suggested making up a story. I merely asked if there was additional information, such as mitigating circumstances. I based that on experiences of actually dealing with real lift situations on behalf of others in the legal field.
CC 72100
Established Member
- Joined
- 23 Jan 2012
- Messages
- 3,819
But surely if such mitigating circumstances existed, the OP would have mentioned them by now?
gray1404
Established Member
Yes, I would like to think so, but people don't always realise until prompted in my experience so its always best to ask and double check, in my opinion.
Or....help them invent a story?
All that would prove is that somebody bought a ticket at that time and place.
Whenever I have seen somebody who has been asked for a ticket, and claims to have lost, they have always been encouraged to look thoroughly for it, and given time to do so. Did you not check the whole of your bag when asked for a ticket? I'm assuming it wasn't simply case of your wallet not being where you expected it to be, and then the revenue protection staff immediately taking your details.
Indeed - I meant to post this story before. I was on an XC train heading north from York a few weeks ago. As the guard was doing his ticket check a lady said she couldn't find her ticket. He told her to look again, she said she couldn't find it. Long story short, he told her about five times to look again, even saying "I think I see some something orange there." I was thinking she's trying it on. Sure enough, she eventually found it and surprisingly it was valid - he said "If you hadn't found it, I would've had to charge you a new ticket which would have been..."
So I'd be surprised if it was straight to taking details - assuming the famous 'attitude check' had been passed.
Last edited:
Guys thank you for all your help... I do understand that it was my stupid problem anyway, as for medical reasons no I have none I've just had a bad year... my mother had a major operation on her liver, the mother to my son has stopped me seeing him and to top that off I work 12 hour night shifts so you can say my head has been all over the place!!! I'm happy to pay what ever the court wants money is not a problem I was just worried they would send me to prison
Since you have an academic background in law you will be able to explain what mitigating circumstances influence the fact that the OP was unable to produce a ticket on request, contrary to the relevant bye-law.
Last edited by a moderator:
gray1404
Established Member
I never said there were any mitigating circumstances, I merely asked the OP if their might have been any to see if the TOC would possibly take these into consideration.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status