"Covid rising in England" - let's stop the fear mongering

[Whistler40145]

She is an insane attention-seeking communist who needs to be ignored. Her views are unpalatable to all but a small minority of the population.

You talk a lot of sense @yorkie

I wished others followed suit

 

[yorkie]

I listen to actual experts and then I know that when someone like Michie talks her nonsense I can identify it as such.

Early in the pandemic, extremists like Michie did have rather more of a following but these days hardly anyone listens to them; the vast majority of people understand that we are going to be living with Sars-CoV-2 indefinitely and that we have to get back to our normal lives.

It's just that people like her make headlines and some media outlets know that such outrageous comments will generate clicks/purchases.

If the media would stop giving attention to doom-mongers we could close this thread and indeed the whole Covid section, but sadly that isn't going to happen any time soon. Maybe around April 2023 when we are past the winter the extremists will no longer get any media attention. Or is that wishful thinking. Time will tell...

 

[duncanp]

Maybe around April 2023 when we are past the winter the extremists will no longer get any media attention. Or is that wishful thinking. Time will tell...

March 20th 2023 woud be a good date to close this thread and the COVID forum entirely.

On the third anniversary of the lockdown we can finally stick two fingers up to COVID and tell it to **** off.

 

[kez19]

I remember some time during the first half of last year, the main BBC News at 10 their headline report was Susan Michie saying we'll still have to keep wearing face masks and "keeping our distance" for SEVERAL YEARS yet!! Unbelievable that just this woman's opinion on what we should be doing and the BBC made it their headline report!! Thankfully the government finally found sense and ditched those godawful hassly nuisance restrictive "social distancing" measures a year ago now, along with those godawful mandatory face covering restrictions/laws too(even though they brought them back for 2 months back in November). And near enough everyone now has moved on from wearing face masks and (un)social distancing! We really don't need all that nonsense returning EVER again, and I think chances are they won't anyway, let alone any lockdowns.

Its a bit ironic you say that but once again though its the likes of the BBC that bring her out again and let them state what they wish without any counteraction in the same report - its just one sided (I think this is where the likes of Sky and BBC are losing trust in the public), remember when Sky News had that tagline - News with No Agenda? All the media have an agenda.

 

[greyman42]

On the BBC politics show "Sunday Morning", when Jeremy Hunt and Sajid Javid were asked if they would implement another lockdown if they become Prime Minister, both said they would not for a covid type virus.

 

[duncanp]

On the BBC politics show "Sunday Morning", when Jeremy Hunt and Sajid Javid were asked if they would implement another lockdown if they become Prime Minister, both said they would not for a covid type virus.

I think all the candidates know it would be the absolute kiss of death for their chances of being the next Prime Minister if they said

"..yes, I would implement another lockdown/make face nappies compulsory again/allow myself to be scared ****less by SAGE....etc. etc..."

 

[Eyersey468]

I think all the candidates know it would be the absolute kiss of death for their chances of being the next Prime Minister if they said

"..yes, I would implement another lockdown/make face nappies compulsory again/allow myself to be scared ****less by SAGE....etc. etc..."

And given the number of times this Government said something wouldn't happen and then it did does anyone believe them? I don't.

 

[kez19]

On the BBC politics show "Sunday Morning", when Jeremy Hunt and Sajid Javid were asked if they would implement another lockdown if they become Prime Minister, both said they would not for a covid type virus.

Cynical me: why are the BBC (or whoever media wise), is even asking that is beyond me, seems like the only ones not letting go of that is… the media I wonder why?

 

[greyman42]

I think all the candidates know it would be the absolute kiss of death for their chances of being the next Prime Minister if they said

"..yes, I would implement another lockdown/make face nappies compulsory again/allow myself to be scared ****less by SAGE....etc. etc..."

Yes i agree, but i would like to hear Kier Starmer's reply to the same question.

 

[duncanp]

And given the number of times this Government said something wouldn't happen and then it did does anyone believe them? I don't.

Oh yes I know.

But they have to say no to another lockdown now, otherwise no Conservative MP would vote for them, let alone the wider Conservative party membership.

Similarly for Sir Beer Starmer, he will say whatever he thinks the person he is talking to wants to hear.

 

[greyman42]

Oh yes I know.

But they have to say no to another lockdown now, otherwise no Conservative MP would vote for them, let alone the wider Conservative party membership.

Similarly for Sir Beer Starmer, he will say whatever he thinks the person he is talking to wants to hear.

To be fair to Starmer, he made it clear during covid that he wanted more restrictions than the government were imposing.

 

[yorkie]

Starmer has been pro restriction / pro mask / pro lockdown because that is supposedly what the "left" want.

Except I'd dispute that; he pandered to the hard left who were keen for such measures to be introduced but the moderate left were not so inclined.

Indeed there were/are broadly 3 categories of people who are pro restriction: the hard left, authoritarians and people who have been overly scared due to listening to misleading messaging. Some people are in more than one of those categories, of course!

 

[Bikeman78]

In fact, some non-vulnerable people (I would class myself as firmly in that category, and I have had the offer) appear to be offered the flu vaccine. Don't get me wrong, I had the 1999 flu and it was a bit nasty for a few days, but I would not consider myself remotely vulnerable to viral illnesses.

Thinking back, I think I caught it. One weekend I did a railtour on the Saturday. Started feeling a bit rough on Sunday morning. Did the Liverpool/Preston class 47 moves, then the pair of 37s to Holyhead and back to Birmingham, then home to Cardiff. By the evening I barely had the strength to cycle home. I hardly left my bed on the Monday but I think I was much better on the Tuesday. Probably the roughest I have ever felt but the world carried on as normal.

 

[brad465]

The only news I really see regarding covid these days is regarding the results of the weekly ONS survey, some legacy aspects/reviews of covid (particularly business impacts), and what's going on regarding covid in China and North Korea (i.e. where the zero-covid power hungry leaders are). I think this will be helping a large proportion of the population not having an interest and increasing the difficulty in getting restrictions back.

 

[nw1]

Thinking back, I think I caught it. One weekend I did a railtour on the Saturday. Started feeling a bit rough on Sunday morning. Did the Liverpool/Preston class 47 moves, then the pair of 37s to Holyhead and back to Birmingham, then home to Cardiff. By the evening I barely had the strength to cycle home. I hardly left my bed on the Monday but I think I was much better on the Tuesday. Probably the roughest I have ever felt but the world carried on as normal.

No Millennium Lockdown, certainly, or mandatory 10-day self-isolation (even if you felt better before the 10 days were up).

On a lighter note, the loco haulage sounds about right for that era.

Starmer has been pro restriction / pro mask / pro lockdown because that is supposedly what the "left" want.

Except I'd dispute that; he pandered to the hard left who were keen for such measures to be introduced but the moderate left were not so inclined.

Indeed, on the majority of issues (such as employee rights, right to go on strike, immigration rights, Brexit, gay rights, minority rights in general, free access to the countryside by ordinary people unencumbered by "Private Keep Out blah blah blah" signs) I would class myself as definitely on the left of the spectrum. I guess I accepted the initial lockdown as a necessary evil (though it went on for too long and they should have gone for the full reopening on May 11th, as cases were dropping rapidly by then) but have been increasingly sceptical since. In particular I was definitely against any potential Omicron lockdown by Christmas 2021 (IMO all that Omicron panic was whipped up to distract people from Partygate, but that's another matter).

Indeed there were/are broadly 3 categories of people who are pro restriction: the hard left, authoritarians and people who have been overly scared due to listening to misleading messaging. Some people are in more than one of those categories, of course!

I think that's mostly true. Noted right-wingers Priti Patel and Michael Gove, for example, would fit into the second of those three categories.

The hard left is harder to explain though: a wish to disrupt the economy so radically to bring about a new world order?

I think there is a fourth category. People - often on the relatively soft left it should be said - with an intense sense of guilt about Covid in particular (which they do not have about other issues to quite the same extent) in that they genuinely believe that radical interventions by the state are necessary if they cut even a relatively small number of Covid deaths (even if the damage done as a result is worse in the long run). I know quite a few people who have expressed this kind of view.

 

[cuccir]

Except I'd dispute that; he pandered to the hard left who were keen for such measures to be introduced but the moderate left were not so inclined.

Indeed there were/are broadly 3 categories of people who are pro restriction: the hard left,

I'm not sure your point is quite right about the hard-left, or at least it's subtler than that. A large part of the hard left leans towards state-skepticism or even anarchism, and has been against restrictions which increase police power.

People such as Dianne Abbott, Rebecaa Long-Bailey, Clive Lewis, Dawn Butler, Jeremy Corbyn, Caroline Lucas all voted against the Covid-19 vaccine pass for example, for that reason. What I think you have there are a bunch who are probably more in favour than the population at large for the 'middling' restrictions (masks, testing, some rules on large social gatherings) but probably prefer keeping these as 'guidance' rather than backing it up with punishments, and who have been quite consistently against the 'harsh' restrictions (vaccine passes/mandates, restrictions on smaller gatherings or political protest). I think they're a group of people for whom the 'slippery slope' arguemnt against restrictions is demonstrably wrong.

By contrast, I think that the 'soft left' which Starmer or Sturgeon represent is more dangerous in terms of restrictions because they share with the hard left a belief in the power of collective action which translates into favouring some restrictions, but not the skepticism of state and authority which means they lack the hard-left's fears about increasing state and police power.

 

[Mikw]

As i've said before, this is not really about politics and opinions, it's about the number if ITU beds and how the NHS copes with an influx of patients.

Governments across the world, whether "right" or "left" have adopted, dropped, adopted again and dropped various restrictions.

It doesn't matter if we think people are "extremists" or "communists" or what Conservative leadership hopefuls say they will or won't do.

If we continue the "footballification" of the issue then we lose rationality and logic.

 

[yorksrob]

it's about the number if ITU beds and how the NHS copes with an influx of patients.

Which, as it happens, is all about opinions and politics.

 

[LAX54]

Odd sight this morning, albeit quite amusing, there was a middle aged lady in a busy store, had a mask on, but 100% of it under her chin, then on the way home, a solitary person, at a bus stop, nobody around for a good distance, wearing a blue disposable mask..... and it was about 28c heat wise too

 

[Gareth]

If we continue the "footballification" of the issue then we lose rationality and logic.

Personally, I feel rationality and logic went out the window in March 2020.

Btw, finally caught COVID 19 late last week and am still wrestling with it. Couldn't help but feel I was missing out.

 

[Eyersey468]

Personally, I feel rationality and logic went out the window in March 2020.

Btw, finally caught COVID 19 late last week and am still wrestling with it. Couldn't help but feel I was missing out.

I agree rationality went out of the window in March 2020

 

[greyman42]

I think there is a fourth category. People - often on the relatively soft left it should be said - with an intense sense of guilt about Covid in particular (which they do not have about other issues to quite the same extent) in that they genuinely believe that radical interventions by the state are necessary if they cut even a relatively small number of Covid deaths (even if the damage done as a result is worse in the long run). I know quite a few people who have expressed this kind of view.

I don't understand what you mean by "guilt". How can anyone have a sense of guilt, intense or otherwise, about a virus?

 

[Eyersey468]

I don't understand what you mean by "guilt". How can anyone have a sense of guilt, intense or otherwise, about a virus?

I suspect what was meant is the appalling messaging of the last 2 years has made some people feel guilty for trying to live their lives

 

[greyman42]

I suspect what was meant is the appalling messaging of the last 2 years has made some people feel guilty for trying to live their lives

As you say, the messaging was appalling so why feel guilty about ignoring it, which i did. I broke many so called restrictions, as many others did, and have no guilt at all.

 

[ainsworth74]

Just on the subject of boosters surely the right answer is to treat it the same as the flu vaccine? Looking at the NHS website it's offered for free to the following:

Who can have the flu vaccine?​

The flu vaccine is given free on the NHS to people who:

• are 50 and over (including those who'll be 50 by 31 March 2022)
• have certain health conditions
• are pregnant
• are in long-stay residential care
• receive a carer's allowance, or are the main carer for an older or disabled person who may be at risk if you get sick
• live with someone who is more likely to get infections (such as someone who has HIV, has had a transplant or is having certain treatments for cancer, lupus or rheumatoid arthritis)
• frontline health or social care workers

Flu vaccine

Find out about the flu vaccine, including who should have it, how to get it and side effects.

www.nhs.uk

That seems a fairly sensible group of people to have booster shots of the Covid vaccine covered by the NHS (though perhaps it makes sense to increase the age? Then again keeping it simple by having one age for both has a certain attraction!) anyone else who wants should just be able to purchase it from Boots (other pharmacies are available) for £15 or whatever the flu jab costs. I don't see any reason for there to be a mass rollout beyond those group that get the flu jab for free.

 

[Eyersey468]

As you say, the messaging was appalling so why feel guilty about ignoring it, which i did. I broke many so called restrictions, as many others did, and have no guilt at all.

I don't feel guilty either especially after the various acts of hypocrisy from Boris, Cummings, Hancock etc. Covid was the ideal opportunity to promote healthy living and instead we got people basically encouraged to get takeaways with them staying open, being told we were guilty of murder if we dared to go out of our houses etc, then there was the disgusting look them in the eyes adverts, whoever sanctioned those should hang their head in shame.

 

[greyman42]

I don't feel guilty either especially after the various acts of hypocrisy from Boris, Cummings, Hancock etc. Covid was the ideal opportunity to promote healthy living and instead we got people basically encouraged to get takeaways with them staying open, being told we were guilty of murder if we dared to go out of our houses etc, then there was the disgusting look them in the eyes adverts, whoever sanctioned those should hang their head in shame.

I cannot criticise Boris, Cummings etc as i was doing the same, and i hope they enjoyed their lockdown drinks as much as i did. It was the the restrictions that were wrong.
Regarding the "look them in the eye" posters, i was surprised anyone took them seriously.

 

[Bantamzen]

I don't feel guilty either especially after the various acts of hypocrisy from Boris, Cummings, Hancock etc. Covid was the ideal opportunity to promote healthy living and instead we got people basically encouraged to get takeaways with them staying open, being told we were guilty of murder if we dared to go out of our houses etc, then there was the disgusting look them in the eyes adverts, whoever sanctioned those should hang their head in shame.

This is the hardest thing to understand, the best way to best support yourself from the virus is a reasonably healthy diet & lifestyle. After all our immune systems (which for those people still banging on about "waning" is what actually fights the virus) are literally what we eat. Have a poor diet and you increase your risk from all diseases, have an improved one and the risk goes down. Yet Covid seems to have alluded this very basic, and obvious logic and gained it's own separate science. Its so head-shakingly frustrating to see little effort from the government, medical professionals & scientists in promoting better diets & more exercise. I myself took it upon myself this year to put in an effort & started walking most days, getting up to an average of around 6 miles a day. Added to this I made changes in my diet, and in just 6 months I've dropped well over a stone in lard, increased my stamina by multiples & I feel so much better. Even my hay fever that I've suffered since I was 15 seems to have disappeared!!

So instead of all this "you must prepare for a frightening new strain", or you'll need "forever boosters" in order to have a chance of survival, the government should be promoting small, yet effective changes in lifestyle that will benefit so many people's immune systems and provide even more protection from serious illness. Instead of banging pots, we should have been cooking healthier meals and going for nice walks.

 

[nw1]

As i've said before, this is not really about politics and opinions, it's about the number if ITU beds and how the NHS copes with an influx of patients.

Governments across the world, whether "right" or "left" have adopted, dropped, adopted again and dropped various restrictions.

It doesn't matter if we think people are "extremists" or "communists" or what Conservative leadership hopefuls say they will or won't do.

If we continue the "footballification" of the issue then we lose rationality and logic.

Rationality and logic would dictate, though, is to consider the "least harmful option" (to the population as a whole) and that would factor in, with a significant weighting, the economic damage that restrictions produce and people's mental health. Covid itself isn't the only problem. The economic damage, job losses, poverty and mental health problems that arise from lockdowns and the harsher restrictions are not insignificant and at various points in the crisis, it really irritated me intensely that some on the left seem to think these were of no consequence.

I suspect more people have suffered from severe financial and mental health problems in the past 2.5 years than have suffered severely from Covid.

 

[Eyersey468]

I cannot criticise Boris, Cummings etc as i was doing the same, and i hope they enjoyed their lockdown drinks as much as i did. It was the the restrictions that were wrong.
Regarding the "look them in the eye" posters, i was surprised anyone took them seriously.

The difference is they made the rules and it is very poor when those that make the rules can't even try to follow then themselves though I do agree the restrictions were wrong and in a lot of cases were illogical

Rationality and logic would dictate, though, is to consider the "least harmful option" (to the population as a whole) and that would factor in, with a significant weighting, the economic damage that restrictions produce. Covid itself isn't the only problem. The economic damage, job losses, poverty and mental health problems that arise from lockdowns and the harsher restrictions are not insignificant and at various points in the crisis, it really irritated me intensely that some on the left seem to think these were of no consequence.

Exactly, and some of those who were screaming loudest for restrictions now seem to be shouting loudest about the harm those restrictions have caused