Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[A0wen]

Anyone any idea what LM are having? DMU or battery? I guess DMU?

They could do with turning up with LM sooner rather than later. One of the Marston Vale chugs is unwell this afternoon.....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They could do with turning up with LM sooner rather than later. One of the Marston Vale chugs is unwell this afternoon.....

Have the required final approvals now been obtained by Vivarail to allow entry in service?

 

[D365]

Have the required final approvals now been obtained by Vivarail to allow entry in service?

The Class 230/2s are expected to enter service December 2018. I haven’t got any information about what further testing may be needed, but I have a sneaking suspicion about the potential for a battery hybrid...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Class 230/2s are expected to enter service December 2018. I haven’t got any information about what further testing may be needed, but I have a sneaking suspicion about the potential for a battery hybrid...

I looked at the Vivarail news part of their website today, in the hope that I would see confirmation details of the unit orders for the Marston Vale line that have been mentioned recently upon this thread and for details of the long-awaited final confirmatory acceptance of the units for main line running.

I did not see anything about those matters and noting the service entry date of December 2018 that you state in your posting above, I wonder why news that Vivarail have secured the Marston Vale unit order has not been highlighted as a positive on their news section.

 

[GusB]

Perhaps they're waiting until sufficient testing has been completed before making any big announcements, especially after the previous fire incident.

 

[D365]

Indeed that might be the case - but Long Marston is certainly looking busy at the moment.

 

[Roast Veg]

I don't know how many are employed by vivarail at present, it wouldn't surprise me if things were very hectic for them right now.

 

[1179_Clee2]

Rail Express magazine
230 002 to 080 HQ/QLUL to LM/MBCS
Either Vivarail have confirmed orders or are they registering 79 more trains in the hope of getting them.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Rail Express magazine
230 002 to 080 HQ/QLUL to LM/MBCS
Either Vivarail have confirmed orders or are they registering 79 more trains in the hope of getting them.

Based on what Vivarail now see as the optimum number of Class 230 units they can fully produce each month, commencing with their estimated starting date for such production, how long will it take to have all those 79 trains ready for service?

 

[D365]

230 002 to 080 HQ/QLUL to LM/MBCS
Either Vivarail have confirmed orders or are they registering 79 more trains in the hope of getting them.

Could you explain the abbreviations please?

I was under the impression that the Marston Vale trio were to be numbered 201-203.

 

[boxy321]

Head Quarters/Queen's own London Underground Licence, London Midland/Milton Bradley Games and the famous C.S. Lewis.

 

[keith1879]

As I am generally speaking in favour of this idea (the conversion to produce the Class 230s) it's probably more reasonable for me to ask this question. Some of the more cynical members of the group may feel a bit reluctant to raise the issue and expose themselves to abuse but.............
Apart from a magazine article what is the evidence that there is an intention to operate class 230s on the Marston Vale line? Have either the builders or the proposed operators made any firm announcement?

 

[Old Hill Bank]

As I am generally speaking in favour of this idea (the conversion to produce the Class 230s) it's probably more reasonable for me to ask this question. Some of the more cynical members of the group may feel a bit reluctant to raise the issue and expose themselves to abuse but.............
Apart from a magazine article what is the evidence that there is an intention to operate class 230s on the Marston Vale line? Have either the builders or the proposed operators made any firm announcement?

See the link on post #5476

 

[keith1879]

See the link on post #5476

Brilliant - thanks.

 

[1179_Clee2]

Could you explain the abbreviations please?

I was under the impression that the Marston Vale trio were to be numbered 201-203.

The first 2 letters are the depot allocation
HQ Head Quarters (no allocated depot)
LM Long Marston
The 4 letters are operations code
QLUL London Underground Limited
MBCS Private owned coaching stock

 

[chrissawer]

The "Fully Charged" show on YouTube has now published its video about VivaRail.

No new revelations I don't think, but an interesting watch to see how the single-carriage battery powered train performs, and another walk through the completed three-carriage diesel powered train.

 

[MatthewRead]

The "Fully Charged" show on YouTube has now published its video about VivaRail.

No new revelations I don't think, but an interesting watch to see how the single-carriage battery powered train performs, and another walk through the completed three-carriage diesel powered train.

Still got those motors Wonder where they will end up hopefully in Devon

 

[Bletchleyite]

Still got those motors Wonder where they will end up hopefully in Devon

Wouldn't surprise me to see some real-world tests on the Marston Vale, given that they will already have the DMU version so Abellio are clearly receptive to Vivarail.

 

[II]

Thanks for posting that link, chrissawer. Interesting viewing and a demonstration of the potential the battery hybrid train holds.

 

[D1009]

I noticed in that video there was no mention of the maximum distance that could be covered on one charge of the battery, and it appeared to me they were looking for short unelectrified branches with through trains operating in an otherwise electrified network. This along with the maximum speed issues identified earlier in the thread must limit the potential.

 

[47802]

I noticed in that video there was no mention of the maximum distance that could be covered on one charge of the battery, and it appeared to me they were looking for short unelectrified branches with through trains operating in an otherwise electrified network. This along with the maximum speed issues identified earlier in the thread must limit the potential.

All very interesting stuff from an engineering viewpoint, they might also be looking at as more of a Diesel Hybrid to reduce running costs, but of course it doesn't alter the fact its still a 35 year old metro train trying to be passed off as something else which doesn't compare particularly favourably with a modern Air Conditioned Train, and the fact they have an order for a grand total of 3 trains on a line which happens to have circumstances and characteristics suited to the D train

 

[GusB]

All very interesting stuff from an engineering viewpoint, they might also be looking at as more of a Diesel Hybrid to reduce running costs, but of course it doesn't alter the fact its still a 35 year old metro train trying to be passed off as something else which doesn't compare particularly favourably with a modern Air Conditioned Train, and the fact they have an order for a grand total of 3 trains on a line which happens to have circumstances and characteristics suited to the D train

I didn't think it would be long before the usual naysayers piped up. Ultimately this is a company trying to prove a concept. It just so happens that the platform that they're using happens to be used, redundant LU stock that would otherwise be heading to the scrapyard. If they were using the same technology, but in a brand new structure with brand new bogies and electrics, would you still be decrying their efforts?

 

[D365]

... and the fact they have an order for a grand total of 3 trains on a line which happens to have circumstances and characteristics suited to the D train

It's almost like you were expecting them to be pitching a bid to VTEC

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If they were using the same technology, but in a brand new structure with brand new bogies and electrics, would you still be decrying their efforts?

But Vivarail are not, so the hypothetical point you raise is immaterial. We have the reality of the situation as it stands, so this is where matters stand at this point in time.

 

[GusB]

But Vivarail are not, so the hypothetical point you raise is immaterial. We have the reality of the situation as it stands, so this is where matters stand at this point in time.

Why does it matter if they're not building an entirely new structure for these trains? It doesn't. The train has already proved itself in the many years of revenue-earning service it delivered with LU. The whole point is that Vivarail are trying to develop a modular traction package that train operators can customise to their own individual requirements and, if at some point down the line those requirements should alter for whatever reason, it should be relatively easy to re-configure. The D-stock just happens to be a handy platform that is surplus to current requirements. If they were to take one of the S-stock trains out of service and perform the same experiments on it, would there be the same hostility?

 

[D365]

I mean, at the end of the day, a few bitter words simply because the 230s were being considered for Northern, is not going to cause Vivarail to drop all their work and close up shop. I’m going to be quite interested to see the outcome of their work, as my current research project is rather related to this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And on LM we welcome them.

 

[reddragon]

I noticed in that video there was no mention of the maximum distance that could be covered on one charge of the battery, and it appeared to me they were looking for short unelectrified branches with through trains operating in an otherwise electrified network. This along with the maximum speed issues identified earlier in the thread must limit the potential.

Battery technology is developing so fast these days that that answer would be irrelevant in 12 months time as cost is reducing & Kw/Kg is increasing so quickly.

Already small battery cars are cheaper & better than petrol / diesel and within a few years the same will apply to trains

 

[Bletchleyite]

The key is developing battery technology. Trains are easier than cars because battery weight is of far more limited concern.

Otherwise it's not like battery electric vehicles haven't been around for years! A BEMU was built in the 1960s. And if you can charge off the 25kV you can charge much more quickly than a car ever will. If an electric bus service can operate in MK with a running time end to end of just over an hour and 20 minute layovers using much less powerful inductive charging (as it is doing), it should be totally feasible on the Marston Vale, though it would sacrifice any chance of running to MKC as the long layover at Bletchley would be needed to charge.

The morning service was cancelled this morning due to a unit fault...these are needed more than ever.

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW, on the Marston Vale you'd probably get away with stacking the cab-end sections up with lead acids as well as underfloor and do it the cheap, old fashioned way. It's not like it's busy.