DarloRich
Veteran Member
Thanks - the bit I cant work out is when the training stopped prior to the switch over
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Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail
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Thanks - the bit I cant work out is when the training stopped prior to the switch over
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edwin_m
Veteran Member
I think the clock for traction knowldge runs from when they last drove that type, not when they might have received any training.
I stand corrected! Still wouldn't make much of a difference, if any, to the drivers, 1 day conversion at the absolute most
hooverboy
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even in the IT industry they'll have a 95% working version for offical release, and then spend the next 6 months doing constant BIOS and firmware updates to get it properly stable.
hooverboy
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obviously not driven to death,as I was on one of the first 230's in service(23rd april), and one of the project managers on the train was wondering why the doors hadn't been tested during acceptance.
not really complaining about the train here as such, but the project manager has a point.
All of this stuff should be utterly thrashed during acceptance testing.It's supposed to be a worst case scenario that picks up faults,if they are likely to happen.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I was meaning the prototypes of a new truck design would be driven to death. The manufacturers of the 230s, like most other trains, don't have the luxury of such testing to destruction so have to iron the bugs out in passenger service.
samuelmorris
Established Member
I would argue that the 230s are one of very few new fleet introductions where they actually did. They have loads of spare vehicles they can use as testbeds.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
because, rather obviously, when Volvo build a new lorry they are not just building 3. They are building 300k. They also aren't building a lorry for the first time and they aren't working out of a shed in a field somewhere. They tend to improve models and engines and build on an existing and proven base. Thye also have many more people working in R&D, test, design, manufacture etc and much more time and money to spend on these things. Also when it comes to test they have test tracks (like the one at Millbrook) where the vehicles can be driven to destruction along with high tech simulation facilities to test various conditions. I doubt vivarail have those
What you are trying to do is compare the fist class 230 with the 4 millionth volvo truck. What was the first vovlo truck like?
They did test the doors. I saw them do so at my station. The problem is the tests probably wont replicate service use.
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zn1
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Now this small fleet is in its squadron service on the branch, the units are now experiencing a different sort of operation, In testing you can only do so much to "break " them and repair them, you cannot simulate punters leaning on doors, jumping on seats etc...the only way you can bed a rail fleet in is by dumping them in to revenue traffic, the drivers will operate differently, guards working them, passengers kicking them around and most important, the steelwork below the dear old track itself will want to punish a train. The only way to really break in any Unit, locomotive or wagon is get it out there, fill em up, and let the crews, passengers and steel itself do the business, The power unit and power will be working twice, three times as hard...this is all common sense...for a small fleet in traffic, these issues will occur and will get sorted...I recall vividly the class 90s being a very bad bunch of ladies, to the point when at Ilford open day The BREL Engineers who had bought down the DVT direct from Works told all staff officially WE DO NOT CALL THE 90S SKODAS OK......in the end the 90s began to behave, once they understood the reality of operation..all fleets behave like this...they have to learn in the same way all animals do...call me a crackpot....;please
supervc-10
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^^This.
It's impossible to test everything perfectly. In any machine, there will be new and interesting ways that people treat them badly which causes issues. Never understand the ability of the general public to behave like idiots!
In aviation, early production aircraft will have teething issues and will be sold at lower prices to the launch customers, offsetting the worse reliability, fuel burn, and capabilities of those early aircraft. I would expect that similar issues will crop up in the rail industry too.
It's impossible to test everything perfectly. In any machine, there will be new and interesting ways that people treat them badly which causes issues. Never understand the ability of the general public to behave like idiots!
In aviation, early production aircraft will have teething issues and will be sold at lower prices to the launch customers, offsetting the worse reliability, fuel burn, and capabilities of those early aircraft. I would expect that similar issues will crop up in the rail industry too.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
While this will be commercial in confidence so we will never find out, I would be surprised if LNR hadn't, along those lines, got a very good deal on the 230s as the launch customer. Buy two get one free? They certainly need the third one...
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I wonder if this week's forecasted heatwave will have any detrimental operational problems on those Class 230 units in current service this week.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Touch wood the service appears OK today... (I've jinxed it now!)
DarloRich
Veteran Member
good effort - there are some crew related cancellations this evening now!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
duffield
Established Member
It's supposed to peak at 34C on Thursday in Bedford and Bletchley.
Going a bit off-topic, but is that likely to be speed restriction territory for some of the network?
samuelmorris
Established Member
Almost certainly, I've seen plenty of speed restrictions in my area once it reaches 28.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
And it's all over the place again...one diagram offset perfectly 30 minutes from where it should be due to a unit failure. Sorry to anyone I jinxed!
Still, there are worse places to sit than Apsley Guise at sunset. Surprisingly quiet for the M1 being only a kilometre away.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
005 doing the honours. Bog out of order again. Guard working from back cab which seems to be mitigating the slow door issue.
Looks like there may have been a mod to speed up the open button being enabled.
Looks like there may have been a mod to speed up the open button being enabled.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Seems we just lost a power pack given the noise I just heard.
Yep, struggling off Bow Brickhill and just load shed the ventilation...
Yep, struggling off Bow Brickhill and just load shed the ventilation...
samuelmorris
Established Member
Is that on the working unit? What did the noise sound like, just a power pack shutting down or anything more serious? :P
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Sounded like a diesel engine stopping with the inevitable rattle at the end, followed by a couple of restart attempts.
There are two "working", the cancellations are staff related at present.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Oh right, so they don't just leave them shut down then. That'll inspire confidence in the passengers...
samuelmorris
Established Member
The MTIN of the actual units aside, it does seem from anecdotes on here that 2 or 3 engines is about as many as they seem able to achieve at once. I wonder what sort of mileage they're getting out of each engine? That presumably is still in 3 figures at this stage. Hopefully more than 2!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I think we are on two. With 4 performance is the same as they were as Tube trains.
Might as well add here... I can confirm the door release delay issue has been resolved, the buttons are now enabled as soon as the open buttons are pressed by the guard. This means dwells are now slightly better than a 153, which should help avoid some of the delays. This issue cost a surprisingly large amount of time, as what was happening was that the sounders would start, the person would try the button, it wouldn't work, so they'd just stand there like a lemon, give up and walk to the guard's door. I reckon it was easily costing 10+ seconds per stop.
And a question - what is the reason for the bizarre button arrangement on the gangway? It's easier just to use the handle. Is it to comply with the letter (but not spirit) of PRM TSI perhaps?
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I had a trip from Stewartby to Woburn Sands and back yesterday (Monday 22nd). 230003 and 005 were in service. I thought it was quite a decent train to ride on (OK I'm used to Northern Pacers), with a pleasant interior and reasonable acceleration. The toilet on 005 was oou. The guard said the batteries tended to overheat in hot weather, of which we have some now. One round trip was cancelled at midday but this was because the rostered driver was stuck at Euston with OHL problems. So I had an extended stay at Woburn Sands but still couldn't find the beach!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
About a mile and a half uphill you'll find the woods - it's sandy enough underfoot that it might as well be a beach! With lots of conifers it has a distinctly French feel about it.
Two sets seem to be out at the minute, but one of them is about 15 minutes late.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
The 230's are disgustingly hot inside at present. Awful. This needs sorting out.
They are also really struggling on the heat with overheating engines/gensets.
They are also really struggling on the heat with overheating engines/gensets.
samuelmorris
Established Member
As is most stock that isn't air conditioned in weather like this.
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