Crossrail 2

[Ivo]

Take Two:

"Change for services to essentially everywhere in England, Scotland and Wales except for the South-West, South Wales, Hampshire, the Thames Valley and most of East Anglia. Customers should [have] change[d] at Tottenham Court Road for Crossrail or Underground services indirectly connecting to these destinations."

The suggestion is that between Crossrail 1 covering Liverpool Street and Paddington and Crossrail 2 covering Clapham Junction and EKXSPblablabla, you can get virtually anywhere that has a direct service to or from London...

 

[joeykins82]

Anyone know why they have chosen turnpike lane rather than wood green? I would've thought wood green would be easier to develop

Turnpike Lane is on a straight line between Alexandra Palace and Seven Sisters whereas Wood Green is quite near

Google Maps

 

[si404]

Also allows potential for decent interchanges (eg same-level at Turnpike Green and aligned under the surface-level platforms at Ally Pally).

Wood Green and Ally Pally could have been a double-ended station, but with poor interchanges to the other lines. Good interchanges is what is needed here to get passengers onto Crossrail 2 and off the other lines (and thus helping Finsbury Park - zone 1 congestion)

 

[jon0844]

EKXSPblablabla

Perfect!



(Please no pedants to point out that it's not the right station!)

 

[greatkingrat]

There is quite a long gap between Dalston Junction and Seven Sisters - I am surprised they haven't suggested an intermediate station at somewhere like Stoke Newington.

 

[ntg]

Perfect!

View attachment 13470

(Please no pedants to point out that it's not the right station!)

excellent!

Sigh, the walk through the tunnels at Kings Cross is arduous enough as it is...

 

[tbtc]

Change here for Watford and The North?

 

[AndyLandy]

"Euston King's Cross St Pancras"

Fancy having to do a manual announcement for that...

"Change here for London Underground Circle, Hammersmith & City, Metropolitan, Northern, Piccadilly and Victoria lines, Thameslink services, including services to Gatwick and Luton Airports, High Speed 2 services to the Midlands and the North, National Rail services, including services to Scotland, and international rail services."

Not to mention the mouthful of a name...

"This station is London North. Change here for, well, pretty much everything."

 

[Ivo]

excellent!

Sigh, the walk through the tunnels at Kings Cross is arduous enough as it is...

Maybe they could provide some Heathrow Pods?

 

[RobShipway]

"This station is London North. Change here for, well, pretty much everything."

Or should that be London Central station, your stepping stone to the national & international world of Railways!!

 

[jopsuk]

There is quite a long gap between Dalston Junction and Seven Sisters - I am surprised they haven't suggested an intermediate station at somewhere like Stoke Newington.

Confusingly, the above ground sections have only principle stations sketched in; there's no indication that I can see that says the same isn't true of the below ground- there might be more stations.

This is about the business case more than anything; about firming up the concept, not so much filling in the details.

 

[JamesRowden]

Or should that be London Central station, your stepping stone to the national & international world of Railways!!

It can't be London Central because Charing Cross (the road Junction just outside Charing Cross station) is officially considered the centre of London.

But you could call it Eusras Cross

 

[mister-sparky]

Turnpike Lane is on a straight line between Alexandra Palace and Seven Sisters whereas Wood Green is quite near

Google Maps

Could they use the old rail alignment between Seven Sisters and Ally Pally? That goes inbetween both Wood Green and Turnpike Lane.

 

[Chris125]

Could they use the old rail alignment between Seven Sisters and Ally Pally? That goes inbetween both Wood Green and Turnpike Lane.

The old Palace Gates line is almost entirely built on i'm afraid.

Chris

 

[tbtc]

Off topic (from the name of the mega-station), but this is going to totally change Waterloo. It's going to lose a significant number of departures each hour (which may weaken the case for converting the "Eurostar" platforms?), it's going to make it focussed on long distance services.

Potential other changes? More trains stopping at Wimbledon and Ally Pally to allow connections? Much more space on the Victoria Line? Interesting that the ambition is to take over many existing southern branches but it's more about additional capacity at the northern end (rather than taking over the "West Anglia" branches).

 

[hwl]

Off topic (from the name of the mega-station), but this is going to totally change Waterloo. It's going to lose a significant number of departures each hour (which may weaken the case for converting the "Eurostar" platforms?), it's going to make it focussed on long distance services.

Potential other changes? More trains stopping at Wimbledon and Ally Pally to allow connections? Much more space on the Victoria Line? Interesting that the ambition is to take over many existing southern branches but it's more about additional capacity at the northern end (rather than taking over the "West Anglia" branches).

Waterloo loses upto 12tph suburban services but they are replaced by 9tph long distance services which suggests more of the long distance services will stop at Wimbledon or Clapham Junction (there are fair number fast thorough Clapham).

The Southern CR2 branches beyond where they split will should also get upto double the existing frequencies, so the Southern end is also about capacity (from 12 to 24 tph across all the branches).

NR and the then franchisee will also want to run the maximum length of trains to full utilise the paths so probably 12 car on everything through Wimbledon which means several of the lower number platforms at Waterloo can't be used as they are only 8 car (P1-4 but if you lost P1,2 then P3-4 should be extendible to 12car) so there will be the need to bring some if not all the international platform in to use sooner to shuffle the Windsor lines over.

Also if the 3 tracks on the Windsor lines through the pinch point at nine elms reverts to 4 tracks then there might be more services on the Windsor lines if they can be kept away from level crossings beyond Barnes.

 

[Chris125]

Off topic (from the name of the mega-station), but this is going to totally change Waterloo. It's going to lose a significant number of departures each hour (which may weaken the case for converting the "Eurostar" platforms?), it's going to make it focussed on long distance services.

I wouldn't worry, Crossrail 2 is unlikely to become reality for at least another 15-20 years so capacity enhancements will still be needed in the meantime - and which are bound to involve the International platforms, if only to increase the number of 12-car platforms available.

Chris

 

[Class377/5]

Crossrail 2 by Sparkyscrum, on Flickr

Did anyone note the drop in the CR2 Core tph? 32 was being mentioned prior to today.

 

[Nym]

I wouldn't worry, Crossrail 2 is unlikely to become reality for at least another 15-20 years so capacity enhancements will still be needed in the meantime - and which are bound to involve the International platforms, if only to increase the number of 12-car platforms available.

Chris

Projected opening date of 2033 for services, to tie in with HS2b.

 

[The Ham]

Projected opening date of 2033 for services, to tie in with HS2b.

Although there maybe some need to be flexible to tie in with the HS2b start date if there is a chance that HS2 gets pushed through a bit faster.

 

[jopsuk]

Perhaps for the announcements on Corssrail 2 at the interchange

This is Euston Kings Cross St Pancras, change hear for London Underground, National and International Rail Services

without bothering to list everything would be easiest?

I'd also hope that upgrade work to all the stations would be carried out such that every station has step free access from street to train.

In an ideal world, where the govenrnment was keen to invest and create jobs, we'd be looking at getting the portal and other access sites ready now, so that Crossrail 1 TBMs could be taken apart and moved to start 2 without much delay.

 

[ntg]

Seems a bit odd not to have the line connect to the ECML at Ally Pally - not because theirs loads of capacity north to run GNR through services after Thameslink, but just for providing an operational route from the ECML to SWML for stock movements etc..

 

[hwl]

In an ideal world, where the govenrnment was keen to invest and create jobs, we'd be looking at getting the portal and other access sites ready now, so that Crossrail 1 TBMs could be taken apart and moved to start 2 without much delay.

Much more likely that some of the Crossrail 1 TBMs will end up doing HS2 phase 1 if they stay in the UK. (The manufacturer has an option to buy the machines back they have finished CR1).

 

[jon0844]

I think it would make more sense to have a new station name for KGX/EUS/STP and simply announce that you can change here for those stations, given at least two of them will be quite a fair walk.

 

[joeykins82]

I did wonder if the Northern Heights plan might be resurrected to an extent by extending the Alexandra Palace route through Muswell Hill to Finchley Central, taking over the Mill Hill East spur of the Northern Line and running through to Mill Hill Broadway.

 

[jopsuk]

Seems a bit odd not to have the line connect to the ECML at Ally Pally - not because theirs loads of capacity north to run GNR through services after Thameslink, but just for providing an operational route from the ECML to SWML for stock movements etc..

a tunnel portal would be a major engineering job compared to a dead end underground station- which could be designed (as with several LU stations) to be relatively easily extended onwards should the opportunity arise.

 

[joeykins82]

a tunnel portal would be a major engineering job compared to a dead end underground station- which could be designed (as with several LU stations) to be relatively easily extended onwards should the opportunity arise.

Indeed, plus if you need a route from the SWML to ECML just for stock movements then there's already the NLL/WLL and Thameslink; doesn't make economic sense to spend millions on a link that's not in operational use.

 

[jopsuk]

Unless there's a turnback (like at paddington on Crossrail) I do wonder if, with the route as proposed, the frequencies on the northern branches are going to be rather high for the demand?

 

[Nym]

With ally pally being as it is, this is likely to have 16tph going down that way, and theres still the possibility of more of the Lee Valley lines going onto Crossrail 2 in the future, but 16tph is likely on the all underground bit.

We could also see "Stanstead Connect" serices running via Crossrail 2...

 

[hwl]

Unless there's a turnback (like at paddington on Crossrail) I do wonder if, with the route as proposed, the frequencies on the northern branches are going to be rather high for the demand?

They have suggested a Paddington style turnback at Wimbledon but only for use if there are problems further south so they can maintain core services. On that basis one might also expect a turnback somewhere on the Cheshunt branch, just north of Tottenham Hale?