Crossrail - Through Running confirmed for November

[ctom_s]

I think from memory from some of the other Crossrail threads they couldn't run 24 without the auto-reverse at Paddington working properly

Also is this the place to discuss Bond Street or is there another thread for that?

 

[ijmad]

Apologies if it's been asked elsewhere, but is there a reason why the peak 24tph timetable has been reduced to 20? Is that not happening until full through running next year, or is it just not happening at all? With the current 12tph on each side, presumably now the total is 20, the frequency will be reduced on the outer sections to 10?

This is Stage 5B, always planned to be 22tph peak until May next year, as (a) auto reverse is not signed off yet (which is needed for the 24tph service), and (b) they're not altering the GWML timetable yet which will add more services to Heathrow that will run through to complete the 24tph timetable in the tunnel.

 

[swt_passenger]

So the walk between the Central and Elizabeth line can be done in about 5 mins. Pretty smooth walk with some stairs and the a new passageway. After that escalators down/up to the platforms/exit. Lots of people wondering around in the morning!

I’m deducing that you’re at Bond St.

 

[ctom_s]

So the walk between the Central and Elizabeth line can be done in about 5 mins. Pretty smooth walk with some stairs and the a new passageway. After that escalators down/up to the platforms/exit. Lots of people wondering around in the morning!

Seems like a quite a long time, what's the interchange with the Jubilee line like?

How does the interchange with the Central compare to TCR?

I'll be there this evening can't wait

 

[Horizon22]

Apologies if it's been asked elsewhere, but is there a reason why the peak 24tph timetable has been reduced to 20? Is that not happening until full through running next year, or is it just not happening at all? With the current 12tph on each side, presumably now the total is 20, the frequency will be reduced on the outer sections to 10?

It’s 22tph but is primarily because of the reliability of auto-reverse at Westbourne Park. It has been discussed a bit before.

It isn’t 12 on both ends currently - 10tph from the West and that’s the max. So 22tph is made up of that. The other 2tph missing are Abbey Wood - Paddington services that should come in May 2023.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Oct 2022 ==

Seems like a quite a long time, what's the interchange with the Jubilee line like?

How does the interchange with the Central compare to TCR?

I'll be there this evening can't wait

Didn’t check the Jubilee line. The Central at TCR is much more clumsy.

I’m deducing that you’re at Bond St.

Haha yes it was!

 

[MikeWh]

I was there too this morning. Arrived on the first wb Jubilee and took maybe 3 minutes to get to the EL, all straightforward. The Hanover Square ticket hall is missing signage pointing to Oxford Circus. You could guess that Oxford Street is the way, and it's not far wrong, though I think straight on past Hanover Square itself is the shortest. The biggest gotcha is coming from the Central line following signs. There's a right turn but it's easy to miss that you then need to turn right again almost immediately. That could become a bottleneck I think.

 

[Horizon22]

I was there too this morning. Arrived on the first wb Jubilee and took maybe 3 minutes to get to the EL, all straightforward. The Hanover Square ticket hall is missing signage pointing to Oxford Circus. You could guess that Oxford Street is the way, and it's not far wrong, though I think straight on past Hanover Square itself is the shortest. The biggest gotcha is coming from the Central line following signs. There's a right turn but it's easy to miss that you then need to turn right again almost immediately. That could become a bottleneck I think.

Yes I nearly missed it - I took an educated gamble at the bit that looked shiny and new! There was a sign but not immediately apparent.

 

[samuelmorris]

It’s 22tph but is primarily because of the reliability of auto-reverse at Westbourne Park. It has been discussed a bit before.

It isn’t 12 on both ends currently - 10tph from the West and that’s the max. So 22tph is made up of that. The other 2tph missing are Abbey Wood - Paddington services that should come in May 2023.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Oct 2022 ==



Didn’t check the Jubilee line. The Central at TCR is much more clumsy.



Haha yes it was!

Yes, but what I hadn't anticipated was the current 12tph peak frequency on both routes at the East being reduced to 10tph. With loadings very nearly at pre-covid levels now, it's going to become noticeably busier now that the frequency is being reduced...

 

[ctom_s]

Yes, but what I hadn't anticipated was the current 12tph peak frequency on both routes at the East being reduced to 10tph. With loadings very nearly at pre-covid levels now, it's going to become noticeably busier now that the frequency is being reduced...

I checked the timetable in November for the Shenfield branch between 8 and 9am and there's 12 tph, 11 running through and 1 terminating at Liv Street High Level. They are also 9 cars(?) vs 7 before

Tough to know what to do about it but I definitely don't think Monday and Friday demand is at pre-covid levels even if Tues-Thurs might be.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes, but what I hadn't anticipated was the current 12tph peak frequency on both routes at the East being reduced to 10tph. With loadings very nearly at pre-covid levels now, it's going to become noticeably busier now that the frequency is being reduced...

It isn't? The peak service from Shenfield remains at 12tph. The Abbey Wood branch does get a reduction, but 12tph all day has been esentially running at "peak" all day. It's noticably quieter past Canary Wharf.

 

[samuelmorris]

It isn't? The peak service from Shenfield remains at 12tph. The Abbey Wood branch does get a reduction, but 12tph all day has been esentially running at "peak" all day. It's noticably quieter past Canary Wharf.

Do you have a link to the full timetable? I've just been going by RTT which only indicates 10tph between 8am and 9am westbound which is just the example I used. Non-clockface timetabling also seems a little strange with trains running between 4 and 10 minutes apart rather than uniformly every 6.

 

[ctom_s]

Admittedly not a full timetable but from RTT (Gidea Park)

 

[samuelmorris]

Ah right, I see the confusion now, the 12tph includes services that turn around at Gidea Park. To my knowledge those were supposed to be extra to the 12tph, not part of it. As someone further East than Gidea Park, I think that still makes it a reduction?

 

[ctom_s]

Ah right, I see the confusion now, the 12tph includes services that turn around at Gidea Park. To my knowledge those were supposed to be extra to the 12tph, not part of it. As someone further East than Gidea Park, I think that still makes it a reduction?

Agreed, but didn't (some) trains always start from Gidea Park in the peak?

 

[samuelmorris]

Yeah but currently they're additional to the 12tph. The current 12tph full route service is being reduced to 10, with the other 2 starting from Gidea Park, so that's still a service reduction, just as there is from Abbey Wood.

Agree regarding Monday and Friday but having seen what just a 10 minute delay in service caused last week, I am concerned that Tuesday to Thursday loadings are going to get pretty cosy due to this!

 

[ctom_s]

OK fair enough, perhaps the increase to 9 car is supposed to offset the reduction as 9*10 is more than 12*7 pre-covid (although I accept that's less than the current 12*mostly 9)

 

[Dstock7080]

Do you have a link to the full timetable?

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/elizabeth-line-november-2022.pdf

Valid from Sunday 6 November to Saturday 10 December 2022

 

[samuelmorris]

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/elizabeth-line-november-2022.pdf

Valid from Sunday 6 November to Saturday 10 December 2022

Thanks!

 

[Horizon22]

Ah right, I see the confusion now, the 12tph includes services that turn around at Gidea Park. To my knowledge those were supposed to be extra to the 12tph, not part of it. As someone further East than Gidea Park, I think that still makes it a reduction?

The RTT screenshot posted is exactly the same as today (with some trains +/- 1 minute) from Gidea Park.

Here we have both today at Shenfield and from November 7th. Both are 12tph. (today is actually 11tph, but there's a train at 0832!)

 

[ctom_s]

Yeah it's another long crappy connection to both lines at Bond Street. The Jubilee and Central and kind of together and the Elizabeth line is separate and further south.

I know it was designed this way but it's still a bit disappointing to me. The only good connection in the whole of central London is TCR and the Northern Line, or maybe Farringdon to Thameslink northbound if you don't need to tap out. (Happy to be corrected on this)

Still very nice to he able to get to central London direct I guess though.

 

[thomalex]

Yeah it's another long crappy connection to both lines at Bond Street. The Jubilee and Central and kind of together and the Elizabeth line is separate and further south.

I know it was designed this way but it's still a bit disappointing to me. The only good connection in the whole of central London is TCR and the Northern Line, or maybe Farringdon to Thameslink northbound if you don't need to tap out. (Happy to be corrected on this)

Still very nice to he able to get to central London direct I guess though.

Had a look today and while yes it's not as nice a connection as TCR-Northern line, it certainly feels less of a distance than the mega Liverpool Street-Northern line connection. The connection was already being well used which was good to see.

The signage however doesn't help it feel a whole. Just signs saying Underground make it feel like there's two separate stations. It would be much better integrated if they signed Central and Jubilee line, and also match the rest of the signage in the central stations. An Underground roundel on the Davies Street entrance would also be nice as it can easily be used as a southern entrance to the Central or Jubilee.

 

[Horizon22]

Had a look today and while yes it's not as nice a connection as TCR-Northern line, it certainly feels less of a distance than the mega Liverpool Street-Northern line connection. The connection was already being well used which was good to see.

The signage however doesn't help it feel a whole. Just signs saying Underground make it feel like there's two separate stations. It would be much better integrated if they signed Central and Jubilee line, and also match the rest of the signage in the central stations. An Underground roundel on the Davies Street entrance would also be nice as it can easily be used as a southern entrance to the Central or Jubilee.

In reality its connected to Moorgate of course and that really is a trek that passageway. The issue of course is finding the suitable land in Zone 1 and the complexity of the levels; many of these buildings really couldn't be anywhere closer.

 

[Thirteen]

I do wonder if the decision to not have both the Underground and EL logos for the Central Section stations is deliberate as TfL are very insistent that the EL is not a Tube line.

 

[Horizon22]

The only good connection in the whole of central London is TCR and the Northern Line, or maybe Farringdon to Thameslink northbound if you don't need to tap out. (Happy to be corrected on this)

Validators are coming this week I think and might already be there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Oct 2022 ==

I do wonder if the decision to not have both the Underground and EL logos for the Central Section stations is deliberate as TfL are very existent that the EL is not a Tube line.

And that the external entrances for London Underground are normally a few hundred metres away. But partly that too.

 

[Thirteen]

Validators are coming this week I think and might already be there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Oct 2022 ==

And that the external entrances for London Underground are normally a few hundred metres away. But partly that too.

Custom House has a shared logo with the DLR but that seems to be the exception.

 

[thomalex]

In reality its connected to Moorgate of course and that really is a trek that passageway. The issue of course is finding the suitable land in Zone 1 and the complexity of the levels; many of these buildings really couldn't be anywhere closer.

It would be interesting to see how long the distance is compared. Bond Street has a few curves along the tunnel and a few extra details such as stainless steel panelling which make it a more interesting walk compared to the very straight and plain Moorgate connection which may disguise some of it's length. It's certainly busier too.

 

[Hadders]

Validator now in place and working at the top of the Elizabeth Line escalators at Farringdon.

Pictures show a platform validator at Farringdon station

 

[matt_world2004]

Looking at the Elizabeth line time table I would hazard a guess that the 5:04 from Shenfield will become the 5:58 from Paddington going westbound come may 2023. The arrival time is just too convenient and appears to indicate some Shenfield services will go to reading even if they are not consistent.

 

[ijmad]

Looking at the Elizabeth line time table I would hazard a guess that the 5:04 from Shenfield will become the 5:58 from Paddington going westbound come may 2023. The arrival time is just too convenient and appears to indicate some Shenfield services will go to reading even if they are not consistent.

TfL are continuing to suggest that both Eastern branches will see at least some (maybe peak only) service from both Western branches so there'll definitely be a few Shenfield to Reading services here and there. Maybe the peak only semi-fast that's been mooted.

 

[Basil Jet]

That's a hell of an escalator at the Hanover Square end!