Cycling on the train...your thoughts.

[D2022]

What's peoples views of cyclists/bicycles on the train? I see a lot of anti cyclist sentiment from railway staff around my way but public opinion is very mixed.

So...

What do people think can be done to improve things?
Should cyclists be charged a separate fare?
Should there be restrictions imposed on times?
Should cyclists be allowed full stop?
etc...
etc...

 

[Trog]

Cycles in the passenger space is an accident waiting to happen,

They often fall over, and tend to come down hard, I would not like to get caught by one and it would be worse for children. Also in the event of an accident would you want to be thrown across the carriage and land on one. Ban them unless there is a proper space for them before someone gets hurt.

 

[DownSouth]

What's peoples views of cyclists/bicycles on the train?

Essential part of a modern transport system which focuses on moving people rather than just moving trains or cars. Every person riding for the home-station and station-destination sectors of the journey is a person who is not causing congestion with their car or unnecessarily taking up capacity on local public transport.

Should cyclists be charged a separate fare?
Should there be restrictions imposed on times?

Ideally no and no. If certain routes are short on capacity during the morning and evening peaks, they could have a nominal supplementary fare charged as an incentive to use the train outside of those busy peak periods or on a less crowded route, but only as a temporary measure until such time as sufficient capacity is being provided and the supplementary fare is no longer required.

They often fall over, and tend to come down hard, I would not like to get caught by one and it would be worse for children.

So you attach some velcro straps to the pole/rail against which the bike is to be leant. Cyclists win because their bikes won't get so easily knocked over by people, other passengers win because they'll be safe from the life-threatening injuries caused by a bike falling over on their foot.

I would question if there's ever been a case of a person being injured by a bicycle falling over though, can you cite such an incident? If anything, I would have thought that's a case for mandatory seat reservations, full-face helmets and five point seatbelts on trains actually, an unsecured 70kg person falling over on you could do a hell of a lot more damage than a 7-15kg bicycle.

Also in the event of an accident would you want to be thrown across the carriage and land on one.

Can't see it making anything worse, landing on a moveable object might allow some of the collision energy to be absorbed by that object instead of hitting a rigid object where your body will absorb all of the collision energy.

 

[Qwerty133]

Banned before 09:30 and between 15:00 and 19:30 Monday to Friday, and after 18:00 Sundays and banned on all trains on Fridays and Saturdays during June-September and all trains before 13:00 or after 16:00 on a Sunday in July and August. and all trains at weekends and bank holidays from 10th November- 10th January.
Also banned on any trains to a major cycle event.
£10 flat fee on all other trains on regional/local services and £20 on inter city services/ journeys over 3 hours.
All bikes must be booked 48 hours in advance, with a maximum of 2 per train.

 

[D2022]

Cycles in the passenger space is an accident waiting to happen,

They often fall over, and tend to come down hard, I would not like to get caught by one and it would be worse for children. Also in the event of an accident would you want to be thrown across the carriage and land on one. Ban them unless there is a proper space for them before someone gets hurt.

Well on HSTs and DVTs ,amongst others, that isn't a problem as there are separate cycle spaces away from the passenger seating.

I've got a bungee cord for mine, clips onto whatever I can clip to and stops the cycle moving around too much. Combined with the stand it will almost entirely stop the bike moving.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thanks for the replies thus far. I asked because I am a cyclist and do take my bicycle on the train.

I appreciate the safety aspect regarding a moving cycle but surely the same logic can be applied to pushchairs? I use a 1980 Raleigh Solitaire (basically a Raleigh Shopper with some different parts) and have never known it to fall over if it's bungee corded to something. I never put it anywhere except the designated cycle spaces. It takes up barely any room as the bars turn flat against the bike so space isn't really a concern.

I travel on FGW services every day and although they don't charge a fee for carrying a cycle reservations are almost always mandatory if you actually wish to board with a cycle. I do agree with a charge in certain circumstances (I'd be happy to pay) and would like to see some more control of bicycle numbers. But it works both ways, if people can't take their bike on the train then stations need proper storage, covered by CCTV and preferably away from the entrance to the station where they can be quickly stolen.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Banned before 09:30 and between 15:00 and 19:30 Monday to Friday, and after 18:00 Sundays and banned on all trains on Fridays and Saturdays during June-September and all trains before 13:00 or after 16:00 on a Sunday in July and August. and all trains at weekends and bank holidays from 10th November- 10th January.
Also banned on any trains to a major cycle event.
£10 flat fee on all other trains on regional/local services and £20 on inter city services/ journeys over 3 hours.
All bikes must be booked 48 hours in advance, with a maximum of 2 per train.

Wouldn't that entirely stop cyclists taking bikes at the times when they are most likely to be taken on?

 

[DJL]

As both a London commuter and a cyclist I have mixed views on this.
I've taken my bike on the train 2 or 3 times. I wouldn't dream of trying to do it in peak times.
Currently I believe most (all?) London TOCs ban non-folding bikes during peak times.
Personally I think even folding bikes should be banned on the busiest services, especially on units not designed to cater for bikes. A folding bike left in the vestibule of a 465 is very inconvenient for other passengers.

Conversely at off-peak times there is usually plenty of space so I see no reason why bikes should be banned at these times. The exception is if there is a major cycling event on - you wouldn't want the trains to get overloaded with bikes. Although perhaps at these times a handful of bikes could still be allowed on a first-come first-served basis.

At all times the carriage of bikes should be at the discretion of the guard/driver and should not be considered a right by a ticket holder.

Well - that's my opinion.

Generally of course I prefer to ride the whole journey rather than cheat and use the train for some of it.

 

[Qwerty133]

Wouldn't that entirely stop cyclists taking bikes at the times when they are most likely to be taken on?

Yes, but if someone wants to take some item on board that will reduce the numbers of passengers able to travel, they have to consider others. During them hours many trains are above capacity and it's much more important that people get to travel rather than bikes.
Also there's often more than 2 bikes wanting to get on board services during these hours, how do you decide who gets on and more importantly how do you stop the others getting on, however if all bikes are banned they can be prevented from accessing the platform all together.

 

[D2022]

Generally of course I prefer to ride the whole journey rather than cheat and use the train for some of it.

Very good point but my commute is about 60 miles off peak

 

[reb0118]

I would question if there's ever been a case of a person being injured by a bicycle falling over though, can you cite such an incident? If anything, I would have thought that's a case for mandatory seat reservations, full-face helmets and five point seatbelts on trains actually, an unsecured 70kg person falling over on you could do a hell of a lot more damage than a 7-15kg bicycle.

We have many complaints re. passengers being injured by unsecured bicycles on trains as well as claims for damage to property and clothing.

Although unlikely, but not impossible, can you imagine the damage an unsecured cycle would do when it "flies" down the train after a full emergency stop - think on sharp pedals, handlebars, &c. Unlike luggage hitting you (where the force would be spread over the surface area) the force on being hit by a point (e.g. a metal pedal), although localised, has the potential to cause serious injury.

Recently we have had two full emergency stops not more than four miles from where I post - one due to a suicide and another due to ****s dropping a wheelie bin onto the line in front of the train. I can also remember some idiot of a van driver knocking masonry from a bridge onto the line and driving off without reporting it - another full emergency stop required. I would not like to be standing in the vestibule next to an unsecured cycle in those circumstances - would you?

 

[edwin_m]

Emergency braking rate is 12% of gravity - compared to 25% on a tram and 50% in a car. The danger of objects flying around is really only a major hazard in the event of an actual collision.

 

[reb0118]

Emergency braking rate is 12% of gravity....

Very true, that is why most accidents with bikes on board occur when passengers are trying to get past them and are suddenly thrown against them due to lateral sideways movement (esp. when crossing pointwork at speed).

My point (no pun intended) is that if you are struck by the point of an object (and bikes have lots of points) the force is focused on that point and even at low speeds injury can occur.

 

[maniacmartin]

There have been numerous lengthy threads about this before. You could have a read of those first - it may answer your questions.

 

[Jonny]

A lot of the anti-cyclist feeling is because some commuters, especially in the South East, get upset when anyone dares to get in their way with even normal luggage, as though just being a commuter somehow makes them superior (PS it doesn't; to anyone reading this you're just the same as any leisure/long-distance business traveller). That seems to account for a lot of the difficulty in cycles being allowed on local trains in the former NSE area.

 

[muz379]

What's peoples views of cyclists/bicycles on the train? I see a lot of anti cyclist sentiment from railway staff around my way but public opinion is very mixed.

As Railway staff ill give my opinions on your questions .

What do people think can be done to improve things?

Personally I think it needs to be made clear that bikes are not a priority on the train , there is no guarantee that you will get your bike on the train .. Better bike locking facilities at stations in a more uniform manner so that people feel more secure leaving their bikes at the station whilst they go to work . and maybe a decent cheap hire scheme like they do in europe so people that currently cycle to the station , take the train to near work and cycle the short distance from the station can actually hire a bike for the last leg of the journey for pennies rather than taking their own on the train . On long distance journeys with the HST's its not that bad because there is massive amounts of storage . On a short commuter service using something like a 150 or a 156 there is a lot less room for bikes

Should cyclists be charged a separate fare?

I dont think they should have a separate fare no , because then you go down the lines of I have paid more so I should be guarantee room on the train . And I dont think we should guarantee bikes a space on the train .

Should there be restrictions imposed on times?

Nope Im happy for a cyclist to bring a bike on any of my trains any of the time . I will do my best to try and accommodate passengers with bikes , but sometimes if 5 cyclists all turn up to get on one lonely 142 they are going to be disappointed . Or if you are a cyclist trying to travel during peak time you might also face disappointment .

Should cyclists be allowed full stop?
etc...
etc...

Cyclist should be allowed of course .,cyclists and crowded services dont mix The only real issues I have ever had with cyclists have been on crowded services .

I had one gentlemen with a bike at a platform ask me if I could please get people to move out of the bike space so he could fit his bike on . Given that this was a sardine tin crowded 156 I declined his request , and politely informed him that if he wished for passengers to move and ultimately leave the train so that he could get his bike on then that was for him to negotiate with his fellow passengers , but I would not be forcing anybody already on board the train to leave to make room for a bike .

I also had a gent with a folding bike ask me If I could wait for him to fold his bike so it could fit on the train . Given I was already running late I again declined his request and pointed out if he was going to regularly travel with the bike in the peak time it might be prudent to have it folded for the arrival of the train rather then expecting the passengers on board who want to get to their destination to wait for him . Fortunately for him there was a service to the station he wanted 5 minutes behind us .

people loading bikes on the wrong door is another issue . If they load it into an area that is not designed to hold the bike they end up blocking the aisle and maybe the door which it is important is kept clear in case of an emergency . For that reason I only let people put their bikes in the space provided . If the space provided is full of luggage then I will look to relocate that to make room for you . But if It is full of bikes or people then tough luck .

 

[Flamingo]

Cycling on the train would be very difficult, there is not really enough room in the asiles for a bike unless it had very narrow handlebars...

 

[jon0844]

Cycling on the train would be very difficult, there is not really enough room in the asiles for a bike unless it had very narrow handlebars...

A unicycle might be okay though, as it won't have the handlebars to come into contact with the high seated HSTs on FGW. And aren't all the rules about BIcycles?

Think I've found a loophole here!

 

[Flamingo]

A unicycle might be okay though, as it won't have the handlebars to come into contact with the high seated HSTs on FGW. And aren't all the rules about BIcycles?

Think I've found a loophole here!

You might be on to something here!

 

[jon0844]

You might be on to something here!

Don't be surprised when you see all those Reading commuters unicycling through the train tomorrow morning!

 

[edwin_m]

You might be on to something here!

Might be on it now but will fall off quite soon.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Cycling on the train would be very difficult, there is not really enough room in the asiles for a bike unless it had very narrow handlebars...

That's what Metro style 2+2 interiors are for.

 

[DarloRich]

Surely the seats get in the way if you try to cycle on the train

 

[Trog]

A lot of the anti-cyclist feeling is because some commuters, especially in the South East, get upset when anyone dares to get in their way with even normal luggage, as though just being a commuter somehow makes them superior (PS it doesn't; to anyone reading this you're just the same as any leisure/long-distance business traveller). That seems to account for a lot of the difficulty in cycles being allowed on local trains in the former NSE area.

Nothing to do with them taking up space that three or four people on an over crowded train could stand in then?

Or the inconsiderate *******s who prop them across a doorway that people will need to use to get on or off at the next stop, then move down the carriage and leave them, or who use their bikes as a ram to force their way onto a crowded train, or push their way up stairs when a trainload of people are already coming the other way rubbing their bike on peoples clothes as they go.

 

[185]

What's peoples views of cyclists/bicycles on the train? I see a lot of anti cyclist sentiment from railway staff around my way but public opinion is very mixed.

Cycling on the train is highly dangerous.

I only know this when on an empty stock at 4am, with all the middle doors pinned open, everything was going fine until the third coach when the driver braked for Heald Green junction, and I rode into the disabled bog door at 30-35mph :P

Allegedly.

 

[LowLevel]

Hate the things - they get right in the way and so many turn up in concentrated numbers for the same few trains they're unmanageable. Same league as giant pushchair toting mothers who block the exits or toilet doors 'because it won't fold'. If you dare refuse them you get abuse to match or exceed any drunken yob. Ask them not to cycle on the platform - get a dirty look and they'll scoot on one pedal instead - walk with it you conceited ****!!! I got so fed up of one peak train and bikes that after 3 consecutive days of abusive from cyclists or traincrew who simply couldn't be arsed to deal with it themselves (I was a dispatcher at the time) that I threw my toys out and refused to let the train leave till every bike above the stated max was off. We had to get a police officer down to threaten them with physical removal in the end.

They're a bloody plague. I even had one who had been turned away from 3 hours worth of trains that were full and still didn't get the message and ride 10 miles to his destination. He got turned away from mine as well as the bike space was full of humans.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Or the inconsiderate *******s who prop them across a doorway that people will need to use to get on or off at the next stop

On most London commuter trains that's the only place that a bike will fit.

Why?

Some utter imbecile decided to design a train without any cycle storage facilities. The London Midland 350s are the absolute worst for this, and for no good reason- the other Desiro trains, and the 333s, have plenty of bike storage.

 

[maniacmartin]

Some utter imbecile decided to design a train without any cycle storage facilities. The London Midland 350s are the absolute worst for this, and for no good reason- the other Desiro trains, and the 333s, have plenty of bike storage.

London Overground stock suffers from this. It has lots of standing spaces by the doors, but its all not wide enough for a bicycle. It's all empty off-peak too. If you design the train with no spaces, or don't label the doors clearly, then its no wonder people get in the way

 

[jon0844]

On most London commuter trains that's the only place that a bike will fit.

Why?

Some utter imbecile decided to design a train without any cycle storage facilities. The London Midland 350s are the absolute worst for this, and for no good reason- the other Desiro trains, and the 333s, have plenty of bike storage.

This leads to a question;

If a train is badly designed, such that a bike cannot get on and be stored in a safe position, thus blocking an emergency exit (or at best simply blocking an exit at a station, or stopping people being able to walk through the train to find another seat or use the toilet etc), but you want to take a bike - is it okay to just put it on and say 'it's not my fault the train is badly designed'?

I suspect the answer is nearly always considered to be yes.

 

[wbbminerals]

Northern has recently refurbished 142s. There is still no cycle space so cycles cannot be safely stored (there is not seatbelt etc to secure them). In contrast most of their 144s are well designed with a groove for the wheel to go into and a seat belt to restrain them.

 

[Trog]

Some utter imbecile decided to design a train without any cycle storage facilities. The London Midland 350s are the absolute worst for this, and for no good reason- the other Desiro trains, and the 333s, have plenty of bike storage.

Surely the good reason is that the space is better being used to carry fare paying passengers. How about if trains were retro fitted with storage niches in the panels beside the doors, that reached back under the nearest seats. The railway could arrange this so a folding bike made to an agreed standard would fit in this. Being safely restrained by a drop shutter, with bikes that did not fit then being banned.

As for leaving bikes across the doors people need to use, may I suggest using the doorway on the non platform side of the train next time. I know it is a long way to push your bike but good manners sometimes requires making an effort on behalf of your fellow man.

 

[D2022]

I even had one who had been turned away from 3 hours worth of trains that were full and still didn't get the message and ride 10 miles to his destination. He got turned away from mine as well as the bike space was full of humans.

Wow...just wow. :roll: I'm glad there are kind hearted souls like yourself working on the railway.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Wow...just wow. :roll: I'm glad there are kind hearted souls like yourself working on the railway.

I fail to see what Low Level has done wrong? If the cyclists were being abusive and / or the amount of bikes onboard exceeded the limit at which it is safe to convey them then he is well within his rights as a responsible member of staff to ensure the situation is rectified.