D&G Buses

[markymark2000]

Are the network return tickets, day tickets , if they are seems like bad wording

Yes. It is a day ticket but it's just another example of D&G having stupid ways of working.

If you want to be sure, buy on the MyTrip app where it is titled '1 Day' rather than the stupid network return.

 

[northwichcat]

Are they network return tickets or day tickets? If they are, it seems like bad wording.

Some drivers call them day tickets, others call them returns.

I suppose D&G are attempting to market them in a way that says if you need to use more than one of our buses to make your journey from A to B then this ticket is the one for you. Opposed to marketing them in a way which says if you want to spend the day riding on buses buy this ticket. However, that's then confusing for point-to-point walkers whose outward journey is different to their return journey

 

[SeanM1997]

Changes to Fares from 1st August 2023

Changes to Fares from 1st August 2023

Due to increasing operating costs we are changing several fares from 1st August 2023.

Single fares remain capped at £2 until 31st October 2023 in line with the government's fare cap scheme.

Changes to other types of ticket are as follows:

All D&G Bus routes
1 day tickets will cost £6.00 adult (unchanged), £5.00 student (unchanged), £3.90 under 19 (unchanged), £10.50 duo (unchanged), £13.00 group
7 day tickets will cost £21.00 adult, £15.50 student (unchanged), £15.50 under 19 (unchanged)
28 day tickets will cost £70.00 adult (unchanged), £49.00 student, £49.00 under 19
365 day tickets will cost £700.00 adult, £490.00 student, £490.00 under 19

Potteries and Staffordshire zone D&G Bus routes
These tickets are withdrawn, but the 'All D&G Bus routes' tickets (above) will continue to be available, and for travel within the Potteries area the Smart ticket is available with prices remaining unchanged.

Crewe and Nantwich zone D&G Bus routes
1 day tickets will cost £4.70 adult, £4.10 student, £3.30 under 19, £7.50 duo
7 day tickets will cost £19.50 adult
28 day tickets will cost £60.00 adult

Knutsford zone D&G Bus routes
1 day tickets will cost £3.80 adult, £2.20 under 19

 

[northwichcat]

£3.80 for a Knutsford Zone ticket is hardly good value, when singles are £2 and the significantly larger Crewe & Nantwich zone is £4.70. I think it's probably only around 2 miles between Lilac Avenue and the council depot on Longridge. If they ran the 47 as well and the Knutsford zone included Fryers and the birds of prey centre then it would be slightly better value for money.

Given the new routes they've taken on why haven't they introduced Macclesfield or Northwich zones?

YX11 CTY now with D&G in plain red livery.

I'm not sure this quote is accurate though:

but at the moment still retains Bedford blinds hence the paper route number in the window.

NEW KID ON THE BLOCK 1.

A recent arrival into the D&G Bus fleet based at Crewe is former Centrebus ADL Enviro 200 YX11 CTY (582).It has received D&G Bus red livery but at the moment still retains Bedford blinds hence the paper route number in the window.It is seen at Congleton working a 42 to Crewe.582 was new to...

www.flickr.com

I hope LED destination displays do not need replacing when buses move between areas!

 

[M803UYA]

I hope LED destination displays do not need replacing when buses move between areas!

No, the destination screen requires uploading of the new operator's destination file. That appears to be a hanover destination screen, so one of the most commonly available LED destinations on the market, with software that comes with it. D&G will have a file with the required destinations. All that's needed is for them to be uploaded to the bus control unit.

 

[markymark2000]

Given the new routes they've taken on why haven't they introduced Macclesfield or Northwich zones?

Why don't D&G do most things? Because they wouldn't dare want to encourage new people onto the bus network!

That said, Northwich wouldn't bring much benefit with the routes that they have, there aren't many local journeys which people would make connecting between the buses.

Macclesfield though should be done because of High Peak. Given they are sister companies, the lack of cross ticketing is barmy but it comes back to what I said earlier. Thou shall not do anything which could attract passengers! High Peak and D&G really compliment eachother in Macclesfield and both a town zone as well as a larger D&G & High Peak zone would be very beneficial to passengers since Of course Macclesfield isn't the only link between the two operators but Manchester Airport, Stockport, Marple, Buxton and Ashbourne all link up High Peak and D&G. The only ticket which can be used between D&G and High Peak is the Peak Plus Xtra ticket but that is valid on the 19 to Presbury and the 108, that's it.

 

[SeanM1997]

D&G have won the tender for the 48 Frodham - Northwich route. This is expected to start from 3 September 2023 and last for 2 years (Subject to Confirmation):

Local Bus 40448 / 60022 / [Award]

Local Bus Services... A Contract Award Notice by Cheshire West & Chester Borough Council. Value £1M.

bidstats.uk

1	Frodsham - Northwich
2	Chester - West Kirkby
3	Chester - Kinnerton

Award Detail​

1	D&G Bus (Cheshire) Reference: 022209-2023-1
2	Als Coaches (Liverpool) Reference: 022209-2023-60022-2 Value: £990,000
3	Stagecoach (Merseyside) Reference: 022209-2023-60011-3 Value: £283,240

 

[JKP]

D&G have won the tender for the 48 Frodham - Northwich route. This is expected to start from 3 September 2023 and last for 2 years (Subject to Confirmation):

Any idea why only 2 years for these contracts? The standard contract length in most areas is 3 years, 5 years or I have seen 7 years. The longer the contract, normally the greater the stability for passengers and financial certainty for the operator. At 5 or 7 years, often new or newer buses too.

 

[northwichcat]

Any idea why only 2 years for these contracts? The standard contract length in most areas is 3 years, 5 years or I have seen 7 years. The longer the contract, normally the greater the stability for passengers and financial certainty for the operator. At 5 or 7 years, often new or newer buses too.

Not sure about newer buses when it comes to D&G. Routes like the 42, 88 and 89 were awarded on 5 year contracts but it's now commonplace to see vehicles over 15 years old on them. That's despite D&G expecting to be required to use Euro VI vehicles on the 88 and 89 (when the Greater Manchester clean air zone came in) and having a number of their newer vehicles converted.

Howards got a brand new Metrocity for the 289 and 188 contract, that was for 5 years with a break clause. They felt like the council cheated on them when they exercised the break clause, as part of a funding review.

 

[Danfilm007]

Not sure about newer buses when it comes to D&G. Routes like the 42, 88 and 89 were awarded on 5 year contracts but it's now commonplace to see vehicles over 15 years old on them. That's despite D&G expecting to be required to use Euro VI vehicles on the 88 and 89 (when the Greater Manchester clean air zone came in) and having a number of their newer vehicles converted.

Howards got a brand new Metrocity for the 289 and 188 contract, that was for 5 years with a break clause. They felt like the council cheated on them when they exercised the break clause, as part of a funding review.

Would many/any 15 year old vehicles be Euro VI? (apart from re-engined ones!)

 

[northwichcat]

Would many/any 15 year old vehicles be Euro VI? (apart from re-engined ones!)

I understand the former Go Goodwins Solos and Enviro 200s, plus the former South Lancs Travel Enviro 200s were converted to Euro VI. I'm not aware of D&G having any others that have been converted. That makes the oldest converted bus 60 reg.

If the Greater Manchester clean air zone had gone ahead as planned I think they would have had to switch the 88, 130 and 288 routes, plus the Handforth Dean Free bus. (PVR of 10)

If it goes ahead now for the same area it'll be the 88, 130, 312 and 385, plus the Handforth Dean Free bus. (PVR of 11)

As some people are pushing for areas like Altrincham to be excluded, I think D&G have given up trying to allocate Euro VI vehicles to any specific routes.

 

[M803UYA]

Not sure about newer buses when it comes to D&G. Routes like the 42, 88 and 89 were awarded on 5 year contracts but it's now commonplace to see vehicles over 15 years old on them. That's despite D&G expecting to be required to use Euro VI vehicles on the 88 and 89 (when the Greater Manchester clean air zone came in) and having a number of their newer vehicles converted.

Howards got a brand new Metrocity for the 289 and 188 contract, that was for 5 years with a break clause. They felt like the council cheated on them when they exercised the break clause, as part of a funding review.

Goes to show that council contracts are as good as the notice period and perhaps shouldn't be relied upon as a main source of income....

 

[SeanM1997]

Looks like High Peak will stick to the 14/14A and that it won't go to D&G despite D&G now having a depot in Macclesfield. From 3 September, High Peak are offering additional journeys at 1110, 1310, 1510 and 1810 as well as some minor timetable changes to the early and late services. Does mean there will be a Moss Rose Circular journey every hour for the first time since the closure of the Arriva depots in April:

https://www.highpeakbuses.com/media/4107/14-14a-macclesfield-to-langley-mon-sat-030923-2-hrly-langley.pdf

 

[StoneyM]

About 20 years ago I used to travel on a D&G bus from Stone to Stafford via Beaconside. Back then the bus was old with a leaky roof in heavy rain. We referred to D&G as Doom and Gloom. Our favourite joke was the one about the local radio news reporting a devastating fire at the D&G depot which destroyed the entire fleet, damage was estimated at £8.50.
I've not been on a D&G for years, but the buses look a lot better now than they did.

 

[northwichcat]

About 20 years ago I used to travel on a D&G bus from Stone to Stafford via Beaconside. Back then the bus was old with a leaky roof in heavy rain. We referred to D&G as Doom and Gloom. Our favourite joke was the one about the local radio news reporting a devastating fire at the D&G depot which destroyed the entire fleet, damage was estimated at £8.50.
I've not been on a D&G for years, but the buses look a lot better now than they did.

7-10 years ago D&G were adding brand new buses to their fleet. Now those vehicles remain in the fleet and their being complemented solely by cascaded vehicles, rather than any acquisitions including brand new vehicles. For example, their most recent acquisition is Enviro 200 YX11 CTY. That's older than the Solo SRs with the registration series YJ13 HN* that they've had since new.

 

[SeanM1997]

D&G have registered to vary 2 routes from 4 September 2023:

7/7A Kidsgrove - Hanley - https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...-registered-local-bus-services/details/614482

38 Crewe - Macclesfield - https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/614483/

https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/bus/search/?form-actions%5Bcontinue%5D=&text%5Bsearch%5D=D%20%26%20G&filter%5BtrafficArea%5D=&filter%5BbusRegStatus%5D=Variation&search=D%20%26%20G&searchBy=&security=d9edce0e8e9f4e5d1a6cb3c9a96352ea-501d581fffd0088f4a803c712617d6f7

2 Bus registrations

Registration number	Operator name	Service number	Start point	Finish point
PD1128125/154 Variation	D & G BUS LIMITED	7 (7A)	City Centre Bus Station, Stoke on Trent	Kings Street, Kidsgrove or Wharf Road, Biddulph
PC1090231/129 Variation	D & G BUS LIMITED	38	Crewe Bus Station	Macclesfield Bus Station

Timetables for 48 and 48A services (starting on 4 September 2023) are now on bustimes.org. 48A operates on Thursdays (compared to Stagecoach who currently operates them on Wednesdays):

48 - Frodsham - Northwich

D & G Bus

bustimes.org

48A - Frodsham - Northwich

D & G Bus

bustimes.org

 

[markymark2000]

It will be interesting to see if D&G can be bothered to comply with the school day capacity demands on the 48. Contract spec is 37 seats on the 07:36 from Frodsham and 15:05 from Northwich. It's been well reported by other forum members about D&Gs compliance with contract spec on the 88 tender.

 

[M803UYA]

It will be interesting to see if D&G can be bothered to comply with the school day capacity demands on the 48. Contract spec is 37 seats on the 07:36 from Frodsham and 15:05 from Northwich. It's been well reported by other forum members about D&Gs compliance with contract spec on the 88 tender.

Well, you know what to do if incorrect buses are used on the contract... the council presumably has some sort of reporting function.

 

[markymark2000]

Well, you know what to do if incorrect buses are used on the contract... the council presumably has some sort of reporting function.

I doubt CWACC (Cheshire West and Chester Council) will care. They have just renewed a contract with a firm that hasnt complied with bus open data tracking for nearly 2 years. Operators sticking to the rules isn't something that anyone is bothered about anymore.

 

[M803UYA]

I doubt CWACC (Cheshire West and Chester Council) will care. They have just renewed a contract with a firm that hasnt complied with bus open data tracking for nearly 2 years. Operators sticking to the rules isn't something that anyone is bothered about anymore.

The number of decisions on the Traffic Commissioner's website suggests otherwise.

 

[markymark2000]

The number of decisions on the Traffic Commissioner's website suggests otherwise.

Most of that is HGV. Narrow it down to PCV and since COVID. Very few.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

About 20 years ago I used to travel on a D&G bus from Stone to Stafford via Beaconside. Back then the bus was old with a leaky roof in heavy rain. We referred to D&G as Doom and Gloom. Our favourite joke was the one about the local radio news reporting a devastating fire at the D&G depot which destroyed the entire fleet, damage was estimated at £8.50.
I've not been on a D&G for years, but the buses look a lot better now than they did.

Decorous and Gentlemanly.
When run by Mr D and Mr G themselves.

 

[Simon75]

With route branding I've noticed recently that the 1/1A Wood End to Meir seem to have more non branded buses.
The 94 Newcastle to Congleton have had at least 2 'orange ' Solos .
Could be since First curtailing the 4 in Audley, they have needed bigger buses

 

[markymark2000]

With route branding I've noticed recently that the 1/1A Wood End to Meir seem to have more non branded buses.
The 94 Newcastle to Congleton have had at least 2 'orange ' Solos .
Could be since First curtailing the 4 in Audley, they have needed bigger buses

Optimistic of you to think D&G allocate buses according to actual demand. 99% of the time it's random units. I think Northern sold their random unit generator to D&G who converted its use for buses.

 

[Lewisham2221]

With route branding I've noticed recently that the 1/1A Wood End to Meir seem to have more non branded buses.
The 94 Newcastle to Congleton have had at least 2 'orange ' Solos .
Could be since First curtailing the 4 in Audley, they have needed bigger buses

Been happening for a while. From my observations the Audley/Wood Lane "Orange1s" have almost all been longer Enviro200's for several months.

 

[317 forever]

I saw an 11-reg E200 on route 385 in Stockport. It looked the least smart but also the most uncomfortable vehicle to reach Stockport these days.

 

[northwichcat]

It will be interesting to see if D&G can be bothered to comply with the school day capacity demands on the 48. Contract spec is 37 seats on the 07:36 from Frodsham and 15:05 from Northwich. It's been well reported by other forum members about D&Gs compliance with contract spec on the 88 tender.

D&G do seem good at ensuring the Bunbury to John Deanes contract gets a big Enviro or Streetlite, or as a last resort one of the big Solos. However, there's probably someone at John Deanes who would see a wrong allocation if a bus arrived or left with standing passengers when there shouldn't be more students than seats.

I think letting D&G get away with using the 26 seater Enviros on routes where the minimum capacity is stated as 28 seats is perhaps unfair on other bidders for tenders. They may have factored in the cost of fitting two extra fold down seats to vehicles in the bid price and then lost to D&G because their bid was slightly higher.

With route branding I've noticed recently that the 1/1A Wood End to Meir seem to have more non branded buses.
The 94 Newcastle to Congleton have had at least 2 'orange ' Solos .
Could be since First curtailing the 4 in Audley, they have needed bigger buses

Been happening for a while. From my observations the Audley/Wood Lane "Orange1s" have almost all been longer Enviro200's for several months.

Last December both the Orange 1 branded Solos were at Wincham and were being used on the 88 and 130 routes. One of them was also used on the Weaverham to Northwich route before D&G changed the route number from 1 to 49.

I saw an 11-reg E200 on route 385 in Stockport. It looked the least smart but also the most uncomfortable vehicle to reach Stockport these days.

YX11 CNE has been based at the Macclesfield outstation for a while now, so it could have been that one. That was originally with Go Goodwins and they were fitted with air horns and additional external lights. So they look quite high spec from the outside but inside they've not been touched since they transferred. I'm not sure if I've been on one of them but I have been on the Solos that also transferred and they have very firm seats compared to other Solos in the fleet.

 

[Martin1988]

I saw one of the orange branded Solos in Sandbach operating a 38 when I visited the area last October.

 

[sonic2009]

I saw one of the orange branded Solos in Sandbach operating a 38 when I visited the area last October.

Currently mainly can be seen on Service 8 in Crewe and gets out on the last 31 to Winsford.

In fact tonight there seems to be one on the 84x.

 

[northwichcat]

This is affecting 88 bus services

Road Closed: Boothfields, Knutsford, is currently under an Emergency Road Closure which is in place due to a sink hole

https://twitter.com/CECHighways/status/1687867259044466688