D Stock discussion and formation reports

[Nym]

75 SuperPacers.

The Underground are retaining 10 of the double ended D Stock for leafbusters, de-icers and other departmental uses.

LU will not necessarily be retaining the double enders...

 

[455driver]

That seems really wasteful considering the trains will only end up being 50 metres long, but I suppose perhaps that's all they think is needed.

How long are the stations platforms they will be stopping at?
If the train is longer than the platform then it cant stop there unless they are going to be fitted with SDO which will increase the costs considerably!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

This is an interesting project, but I think calling these trains "SuperPacers" is not very fitting and might not go down well.

It's important to realise that the vast majority of people who travel on todays Pacers will be neither fans of trains nor fans of Pacers. In fact for those that actually use them I'd suggest there may be a loathing for them from many. From what I have seen, the term Pacer itself has become synonymous with "neglected north".

Having ridden on a Pacer myself I think giving any Pacer term to D stock conversions doesn't do justice to the potential quality product on offer anyway. Even unrefurbished a D stock train and a pacer are incomparable in terms of passenger comfort.

The term "D train" is quite snappy I thought, as a brand name.

I got the nickname off somewhere else on this forum and I have seen it in one other place as well... I will continue to use it.

 

[455driver]

The term "D train" is quite snappy I thought, as a brand name.

But saying-

"I am going to catch D train"

Could lead to a smack in the mouth in certain company, especially if you have a bit of an accent!

 

[Camden]

I got the nickname off somewhere else on this forum and I have seen it in one other place as well... I will continue to use it.

Fair enough. Unfortunately I think the majority won't be as keen on Pacers, though. I'd quite like to see this project succeed, as I think it's a good, potentially cost effective use of quality trains.

Out of interest, aside from that you say someone else used the nickname, what is it that leads you to use the term for these?

From my own personal experience of riding both, even without a refurbishment (and the proposed refurb looks excellent), I can't find anything comparable about them at all. Is it not a bit like calling a 395 a SuperTurboStar?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Fair enough. Unfortunately I think the majority won't be as keen on Pacers, though. I'd quite like to see this project succeed, as I think it's a good, potentially cost effective use of quality trains.

Out of interest, aside from that you say someone else used the nickname, what is it that leads you to use the term for these?

From my own personal experience of riding both, even without a refurbishment (and the proposed refurb looks excellent), I can't find anything comparable about them at all. Is it not a bit like calling a 395 a SuperTurboStar?

In the order you've raised these points:

1) Bear in mind that the D Stock fleet is several years older than the 142s so while the project may well be a cost saver, it can surely only ever be a short term stopgap solution?

2) The other use of the nickname I saw was for these same D Stock conversions; it just struck a chord in my mind as being a mixture of both funny, windy-up and relating to the likely route usage of the stock. It's pretty much in the same league as calling the class 90s Skodas, I guess.

3) I ride the D Stock very regularly and when I visit the northern parts of England I ride in 142s quite a bit; I do actually prefer the 142s and have been known to let other stock go in order to ride one ( I actually enjoy the bumpiness... ). I'm not sure what nickname the 395s would have gained had they not been labelled as "Javelins" right from the start, but I doubt they'd have had a diesel related nickname - more likely it would have been something either relating to their noses or something comparing them to the Eurostars they share the tracks with; given their comparatively small size yet being quite fast, I wonder if they might possibly have ended up being labelled "Scooters"? Maybe an official fear of that sort of thing happening led to the "Javelin" name being made widely known even before delivery even though it was supposed to apply only to the Olympics shuttle?

 

[swt_passenger]

I got the nickname off somewhere else on this forum and I have seen it in one other place as well... I will continue to use it.

D-train is definitely the term used in this article on Rail magazine's website:

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/fl...il-ready-to-start-converting-first-lu-d-stock

I'd carry on if I were you...

 

[BurtonM]

Don't think it's been mentioned but Monday (19th) is the day the D Stock starts to be withdrawn - seen on District Dave's forum via diamond geezer's blog.
It was also suggested the first units to go will be 7058/7510 and 7082/7065.

 

[edwin_m]

Someone on another forum suggested "Wombles" - Underground Overground and all that.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Don't think it's been mentioned but Monday (19th) is the day the D Stock starts to be withdrawn - seen on District Dave's forum via diamond geezer's blog.
It was also suggested the first units to go will be 7058/7510 and 7082/7065.

*ahem*

My post 19 above on page 2 in this thread...

Although I had the impression that the withdrawals would take place on Friday night 16th. Does anyone know if the withdrawals have indeed happened and if it is indeed the four units that have been suggested?

 

[londiscape]

In the order you've raised these points:

3) I ride the D Stock very regularly and when I visit the northern parts of England I ride in 142s quite a bit; I do actually prefer the 142s and have been known to let other stock go in order to ride one ( I actually enjoy the bumpiness... ). I'm not sure what nickname the 395s would have gained had they not been labelled as "Javelins" right from the start, but I doubt they'd have had a diesel related nickname - more likely it would have been something either relating to their noses or something comparing them to the Eurostars they share the tracks with; given their comparatively small size yet being quite fast, I wonder if they might possibly have ended up being labelled "Scooters"? Maybe an official fear of that sort of thing happening led to the "Javelin" name being made widely known even before delivery even though it was supposed to apply only to the Olympics shuttle?

In homage to RJ's stories on here, I would like to nominate the nickname "Pinocchios" both on account of their long noses and the tendency of the Southeastern gateline at St Pancras to lie about ticket validity

 

[Dstock7080]

Unit 7058 dispatched from Ealing Common depot by road today.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Unit 7058 dispatched from Ealing Common depot by road today.

Is that all three cars, and presumably for conversion?

 

[Domh245]

I believe it was all 3 cars from unit 058, as well as unit 510/11. Does anyone know where the conversions for vivarail are taking place, and where the RAT conversions are being done? I am guessing that the RAT versions will be done with the next couple of units.

 

[swt_passenger]

Does anyone know where the conversions for vivarail are taking place...

Long Marston - it's in the Rail Mag article I linked to a few posts above.

 

[Dstock7080]

Units 7114+7129 being dispatched from Ealing Common depot by road. Unit 7129 being the last D Stock delivered and already fitted with hopper windows.

Finally confirmation from LU sources that VivaRail have acquired: "part of the D stock fleet (450 cars in total), has been sold for reuse (156 driving motor and 70 trailer cars). Two trains will be used by our Emergency Response Unit (ERU) for training purposes. Two further trains will be converted to Rail Adhesion Trains (RATs), for future use on the SSR network and the remaining cars will be scrapped.

 

[Nym]

That leaves 4 DM / UDM cars going for scrap by my count then.

 

[Dstock7080]

That leaves 4 DM / UDM cars going for scrap by my count then.

I make 6 DM, 130 UNDM and (depending how long the kept LU trains will be) 76 or 74 T cars to go.

 

[Nym]

I strongly suspect that there will be less than 130 UNDM vehicles left

I was allowing for something else with the 4 DMs thing, could well be six.

 

[astock5000]

Some formation reports from 7th February:

7024 + 7087
7030 + 7535
7042 + 7027 Stabled in Ealing Common Depot
7068 + 7043
7096 + 7059 046
7098 + 7525 001
7108 + 7035
7110 + 7125
7112 + 7077 024
7120 + 7053 002
7526 + 7103 010
7538 + 7001 025

 

[Dstock7080]

this morning:
7000+7047 T25
7004+7063 T60
7030+7535 T62
7034+7045 T106
7040+7037 T53
7042+7027 T32
7046+7015 T124* reformed onto T41
7050+7533 T6
7052+7007 T66
7066+7061 T23
7072+7513 T37
7076+7017 T105
7090+7071 T43
7094+7079 T54
7102+7115 T45
7108+7035 T14
7110+7125 T17
7112+7077 T107
7116+7055 T35
7122+7029 T1
7506+7107 T22
7514+7083 T46* withdrawn/changeover
7516+7005 T51
7520+7041 T52
7526+7103 T20
7528+7105 T40
7530+7083 T61

 

[317 forever]

Units 7114+7129 being dispatched from Ealing Common depot by road. Unit 7129 being the last D Stock delivered and already fitted with hopper windows.

Finally confirmation from LU sources that VivaRail have acquired: "part of the D stock fleet (450 cars in total), has been sold for reuse (156 driving motor and 70 trailer cars). Two trains will be used by our Emergency Response Unit (ERU) for training purposes. Two further trains will be converted to Rail Adhesion Trains (RATs), for future use on the SSR network and the remaining cars will be scrapped.

As these D stock conversions to Pacer replacements for Northern Rail are supposed to be available to the replacement franchisees next February, this suggests that many trains for imminent withdrawal will be the trains sold to VivaRail.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

As these D stock conversions to Pacer replacements for Northern Rail are supposed to be available to the replacement franchisees next February, this suggests that many trains for imminent withdrawal will be the trains sold to VivaRail.

Since Vivarail have apparently bought the bulk of the fleet, wouldn't we naturally expect that all but the final few withdrawals would be for them?

 

[317 forever]

Since Vivarail have apparently bought the bulk of the fleet, wouldn't we naturally expect that all but the final few withdrawals would be for them?

I actually like the idea of most if not all D stock being converted to rail replacement stock. It is noticeably more modern than the recent A and C69 stock, and to a lesser extent C77 stock too.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

My own opinion is that:

1) It's not ideal.
2) It does, however, make sense to do.
3) If Adrian Shooter is involved then we need to take it very seriously. You only have to look at his track record to see that. He wouldn't be involved with anything that hasn't been properly thought through.

 

[samuelmorris]

I actually like the idea of most if not all D stock being converted to rail replacement stock. It is noticeably more modern than the recent A and C69 stock, and to a lesser extent C77 stock too.

The A stock would have made fine national rail units but they were just too old and their withdrawal was timely. The C stock would not have made very pleasant trains to use in my opinion. The D stock however do have a little life left in them as is and also the capability to do be a viable national train. I'm still sceptical of how 60mph will affect their longevity as well as the potential timetabling constraints of using such slow units, but in the right places, they'd make more than adequate stopgaps for a decade or two. By 2030 though, they really need to be gone in favour of newer stock, I can't see them lasting too well on the DC traction system much beyond 50 years after manfacture. If they can last long enough in this formation to allow them to be a similar age to that of the A stock when retired I think the plan will have been worthwhile.

 

[Dstock7080]

With the restarting of S7 Stock deliveries, following the Chiltern landslip, recent D Stock unit withdrawals have been (DM+T to VivaRail project, UNDM to scrap):

19-20/01/15: 7058+7511
22/01/15: 7082+7065
26-27-28/01/2015: 7114+7129
02-03/02/15: 7056+7025
04-05/02/15: 7128+7067
16-17/03/15: 7081 (17081 to scrap)
16-17/04/15: 7117+7076

 

[tranzitjim]

How many S stock trains do you still have stored now?

 

[Dstock7080]

How many S stock trains do you still have stored now?

Latest information suggests there are 30 completed S7s waiting at Old Dalby. A small few are at locations in London, Ruislip, Northfields etc.

Driver training has now been completed on the District Line. However, the works at Ealing Common and Upminster depots has considerably slowed the entry into service.

 

[philjo]

What is the current situation on this?
There are still a number D stock units operating on the district line when I board at Blackfriars - what is the timetable for these to be replaced with S7s?