Dawlish sea wall collapse

[LexyBoy]

Even the so-called experts have largely discounted the recent weather as being the result of climate change/global warming.

The old so-called experts again eh? I don't think you'll find anyone with any credibility who claims a single event can be attributed to long-term trends - it is nonsense to do so. That doesn't change the fact that the two are connected.

 

[Lankyline]

Local Dawlish MP on TV this morning saying that building a breakwater was needed plus the obvious rebuilding & protection of the seawall,she quoted £300m to do the breakwater ! Also said that the last govt looked into a diversionary line and rejected it on cost grounds

I would say that 6 weeks is a conservative figure from network rail given the weather to come, especially over the next 48 / 72hrs. As a rough guide how long did it take NR to rebuild the stretch of track on the Cumbian line that was washed away recently ?

 

[lincolnshire]

One big question is who is going to pay for all these repairs to the sea wall and get the line reopened in six weeks (not a cat in hells chance) ? I think I know who again, the good old taxpayer you just watch how much money that Network Rail can throw at a contractor to carry out the work as knowing what they are like.

Wait and see if we ever get a cost for restoration? did we get a final price for Hatfield then? another one that the tax payer paid for.

 

[Johnuk123]

Network Rail are going to be bankrupt by the end of this which will probably be about August.

 

[ainsworth74]

I would say that 6 weeks is a conservative figure from network rail given the weather to come, especially over the next 48 / 72hrs.

There was a guy from Network Rail this morning on BBC Breakfast who said that 6 weeks was their best guess but would be firmed up once they could get in and do a full structural survey. Which seems a reasonable stance to take.

As a rough guide how long did it take NR to rebuild the stretch of track on the Cumbian line that was washed away recently ?

It was about a week, maybe a little longer.

 

[G_A_C_C_C]

It's red, "Devonian" sandstone.....and this is what happens to it if the sea gets passed the railway
http://metro.co.uk/2013/04/04/cliff...ing-down-oddicombe-cliffs-in-torquay-3582518/

I walk down that path ever summer from Dawlish Warren, and what always puzzled me was why that section of the wall is single skin? (particularly when I had to carry the pushchair down, along and back up the steps!) The wall either side of that section is double thickness with the path on top.

 

[The Planner]

One big question is who is going to pay for all these repairs to the sea wall and get the line reopened in six weeks (not a cat in hells chance) ? I think I know who again, the good old taxpayer you just watch how much money that Network Rail can throw at a contractor to carry out the work as knowing what they are like.

Wait and see if we ever get a cost for restoration? did we get a final price for Hatfield then? another one that the tax payer paid for.

Did Network Rail get extra money on top of the final determination for CP4 to fix that then? I wasnt aware they did, if not then it was funded by the money they already have.

 

[cambsy]

I think if weather is bad as forecast over weekend, then dread to think what the seawall at Dawlish will be like, could be a hell of a lot more damage, one thing for sure, its going to be mightily expensive in short and long term, as short time its going to be have to be made weather resilience and long term a new diversion or use much vaunted Okehampton-Meldon-Taavistock-Plymouth closed line, but that could many years, i can see it running into billion pounds or more mark.

 

[Zoidberg]

I think if weather is bad as forecast over weekend, then dread to think what the seawall at Dawlish will be like, could be a hell of a lot more damage, ...

On the BBC news this morning, there was mention of spraying quick setting concrete to stabilise what has been exposed by the storms. What I remember is the guy being interviewed speaking about doing the work today in between high tides.

 

[PhilipW]

An amusing quip from another forum

Station announcement at Penzance: "Your attention please. The 10:35 Penzance to London train is delayed due to some fool building the main line right next to the sea ! Passengers are requested to alight at Dawlish station and swim for 50 yards before joining another train to resume their onward journey's. First Great Western trains apologise for any wetness or drowning on this service. Thank you"

(Only kidding Mr Brunel !)

 

[DarloRich]

One big question is who is going to pay for all these repairs to the sea wall and get the line reopened in six weeks (not a cat in hells chance) ? I think I know who again, the good old taxpayer you just watch how much money that Network Rail can throw at a contractor to carry out the work as knowing what they are like.

Wait and see if we ever get a cost for restoration? did we get a final price for Hatfield then? another one that the tax payer paid for.

What on earth are you talking about?

I am not entirely sure you understand how and where Network Rail are funded or how major and specialised infrastructure jobs of this nature are carried out, but I am sure you know best.

The Hatfield works aren’t even finished yet so a final price might be a bit hard to work out at this stage!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Network Rail are going to be bankrupt by the end of this which will probably be about August.

Is that a serious post?

 

[YorkshireBear]

What on earth are you talking about?

I am not entirely sure you understand how and where Network Rail are funded or how major and specialised infrastructure jobs of this nature are carried out, but I am sure you know best.

The Hatfield works aren’t even finished yet so a final price might be a bit hard to work out at this stage!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Is that a serious post?

No I dont think he does either......

And I sense that it was sarcastic, that is certainly how I took it.

 

[fgwrich]

On the BBC news this morning, there was mention of spraying quick setting concrete to stabilise what has been exposed by the storms. What I remember is the guy being interviewed speaking about doing the work today in between high tides.

What Network Rail will actually be going is taking a machine used to spray concrete onto tunnel walls that has been in use in Whiteball Tunnel to Dawlish to spray concrete into the void in the trackbed created, hopefully to keep the next coming tides out and to prevent further damage to the trackbed and foundations to the properties above the line.

From Network Rails perspective it's lucky (again!) that they've already got a large amount of Rail Plant and staff down there to operate it.

 

[tsr]

Just so long as they don't divert any of the concrete into a signalling room in a major city...

 

[Zoidberg]

What Network Rail will actually be going is taking a machine used to spray concrete onto tunnel walls that has been in use in Whiteball Tunnel to Dawlish to spray concrete into the void in the trackbed created, hopefully to keep the next coming tides out and to prevent further damage to the trackbed and foundations to the properties above the line.

From Network Rails perspective it's lucky (again!) that they've already got a large amount of Rail Plant and staff down there to operate it.

Thanks for the clarification.

Just so long as they don't divert any of the concrete into a signalling room in a major city...

Naughty

 

[Lankyline]

There was a guy from Network Rail this morning on BBC Breakfast who said that 6 weeks was their best guess but would be firmed up once they could get in and do a full structural survey. Which seems a reasonable stance to take.



It was about a week, maybe a little longer.

Cheers, thanks for that,

i wonder how much the problems are compounded by the road & property being so close to the line and whether NR can fix the line without having to depend on co-operation from EA, HA & the local authority ?

 

[MetroDriver]

Just so long as they don't divert any of the concrete into a signalling room in a major city...

Oh cummon..... what's the chances of that happening?

Oh wait :roll:

 

[LeylandLen]

We all agree that the work needs to be done as soon as possible. Obviously experts and senior people at Network Rail will be needed as well as a good workforce. I presume all the people and machinery required are working on other Engineering work and projects elsewhere on the Network , so transferring them to Dawlish will have a knock-on effect ,delaying other work especially if the work goes on until Easter ,with Good Friday being 10 weeks tomorrow, 18th April . Then there's all the material needed, as there is sure to be a big demand for repairing other storm damaged areas around the coast.

 

[IanXC]

When they say "biggest job", I'm not so sure. Things like the Hatfield & Stainforth ground movement were on a pretty large scale, as an example.

The quote is 'biggest structural job' which seems more plausible. Hatfield and Stainforth didn't involve the failure of a structure per se. On a side note, that is only now winding down...

 

[Bald Rick]

Just so long as they don't divert any of the concrete into a signalling room in a major city...

Given that the nearest major city is Bristol, that would be quite a decent shot...

 

[cuccir]

Current earliest possible re-opening date is 18th March, according to National Rail Enquiries. With emphasis, I think, on earliest.

 

[swt_passenger]

We all agree that the work needs to be done as soon as possible. Obviously experts and senior people at Network Rail will be needed as well as a good workforce. I presume all the people and machinery required are working on other Engineering work and projects elsewhere on the Network , so transferring them to Dawlish will have a knock-on effect ,delaying other work especially if the work goes on until Easter ,with Good Friday being 10 weeks tomorrow, 18th April . Then there's all the material needed, as there is sure to be a big demand for repairing other storm damaged areas around the coast.

I think it's far more likely that NR will employ a specialist sub-contractor to do the sea wall rebuilding phase of the work, a firm that's used to working in inter-tidal conditions, but not necessarily a railway specialist.

Then once the formation is ready for track laying they will possibly bring in a team of their own people to relay what is a fairly short section of track.

Someone from NR will correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't maintain an in-house capability of either men or machinery that can deal with every eventuality.

 

[brad465]

Cost to the Cornwall/Devon economy is expected to be around £1-2million per day, according to various news sources.

This would mean that if you took the upper end of £2million for 42 days the cost could be at least £84million, I say that as work can't start till the weather eases down, and other hidden costs could be factored in. Costs could be well in the £100 millions economically.

 

[fgwrich]

Given that the nearest major city is Bristol, that would be quite a decent shot...

Or Exeter... Or Plymouth...

(Both of which are cities and both of which have PSBs)

 

[HSTEd]

Unfortunately, unlike the sea floods in Somerset this is not on an estuary, so I can't propose a barrage as a solution......

So how about a fifteen kilometre long breakwater starting in Exmouth and continuing parallel to a coast till just short of the coast at Torquay.
This would shield the coast from the worst of the storm and convert the entire area into a Fleet-esque semi Lagoon draining to the south
(Or it might be better to drain at the Exmouth end to shield it from waves coming in off the Atlantic).

Either way you create a lagoon into which the Teign and Exe drain, shielding the entire coastal section (which is rather vulnerable to massive storms) from the sea.

You might even be able to generate a little bit of tidal pwoer from those two estuaries.

 

[thelem]

There is a video about the houses behind the line halfway down the page at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26061795

 

[yorkie]

Please use this thread for discussion regarding the Dawlish sea wall collapse.

• For discussion on alternative route proposals, please use Suggestions for Dawlish avoiding route
• For discussion on the impact of 'trapped' trains, please use Train sets trapped in Devon and Cornwall
• For ticketing matters, please use FGW ticket relaxations due to line closure through Dawlish?

 

[IanXC]

Specialist engineers
We've mobilised a range of specialist contractors, engineers and suppliers from across the country to help with the work needed at Dawlish and we've also taken up the offer of discussions with the Ministry of Defence to see if there is any help which can be provided by the armed forces based in the south-west.

Repairing the damage
Initial estimates are that it will take at least six weeks before we can reopen the railway, but the immediate priority is to shore up the damaged section using a concrete spraying machine which was being used to refurbish Whiteball Tunnel in Somerset.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/news/2...d-railway-at-Dawlish-as-more-storms-approach/

I think the thought that Network Rail are using this period of time to gather together the team required for this work seems to be correct. In addition to the contractors and specialists mentioned above, I heard an interview on the radio earlier where it was stated that NR are in active discussions with a number of quarries about the rapid supply of materials.

 

[amcluesent]

Telegraph reporting that Environment Agency wouldn't protect Dawlish seawall from storms until impact on local bird life had been fully assessed.

 

[Midlandman]

It's red, "Devonian" sandstone.....and this is what happens to it if the sea gets passed the railway
http://metro.co.uk/2013/04/04/cliff...ing-down-oddicombe-cliffs-in-torquay-3582518/

I walk down that path ever summer from Dawlish Warren, and what always puzzled me was why that section of the wall is single skin? (particularly when I had to carry the pushchair down, along and back up the steps!) The wall either side of that section is double thickness with the path on top.

When the footpath was built to the seaward of the railway, the then owners of one of the houses objected to the fact that walkers would be able to see in through their windows. (Although given the penchant for net curtains in those days, one is forced to wonder WHAT they'd actually be able to see). The railway company was thus forced to take the path down to the beach and back up again 50 yards later. I, too, was struck by the fact that it was that particular bit of the wall that had come off worst.