DB Class 60s to be withdrawn

[Rail Quest]

DCR 60s are no longer maintained by DB at Toton, when 60046 was out of service earlier this year the required work, which included removal of the engine, was undertaken at Loughborough

Ahh OK fair enough. In which case, provided maintenance arrangements can be made and DB decide to offer them for sale - I see no reason why GBRf in particular wouldn't purchase some more 60s, especially considering the investigations Longport supposedly made to swap the engines in the 60s. Perhaps this will provide further incentive for another GBRf loco engine re-fit project. I suppose, we're veering into speculation though.

 

[JonathanH]

They'll be doing rather more than reducing operating costs at Toton if DB are pulling out of UK operations.

DB pulling out of UK operations means the German parent selling up to a suitable buyer, if one exists, rather than the operation shutting down altogether. However, to be sold, the operation would need to be suitably attractive to someone to buy.

 

[12LDA28C]

Really? When will they completely disappear?

When they get sold off to a competitor or other organisation.

DB pulling out of UK operations means the German parent selling up to a suitable buyer, if one exists, rather than the operation shutting down altogether. However, to be sold, the operation would need to be suitably attractive to someone to buy.

Which, as I understand it, is not currently the case with DB having lost many freight flows to competitors such as GBRf and FLHH and the business being in a poor situation financially, as a result of 'a significant downturn in core markets'.

 

[ActonChris]

A handful of 66s will be regeared to have a higher tractive effort.

The 60s are just too expensive and uneconomical to maintain and fail again within weeks, sometimes days of going back into service.

 

[D7666]

DB pulling out of UK operations means the German parent selling up to a suitable buyer, if one exists, rather than the operation shutting down altogether. However, to be sold, the operation would need to be suitably attractive to someone to buy.

DB could always sell out to Great British Railways.

Ohh, silly me, far too much joined up thinking there.

It'll probably go to Amazon logistics and operate drones instead.

 

[Speed43125]

DB could always sell out to Great British Railways

That's an intriguing thought!

 

[Doomotron]

That's an intriguing thought!

My friend and I were talking last night about what would happen if DB did pull out. It was an interesting discussion, and oddly enough we concluded that the class of train least likely to find a new home en masse would be the 67s as they lack a certain use other than the few already being used.

The 60s are somehow more likely to survive because of their power, although whether they would or not I can't say for certain.

 

[Sparkynl]

Which ones are left in active service?

The DB 60s have been withdrawn and stored one by one as they reach 20,000 engine hours. We were advised online which ones would be soon to go, so for example, I made some attempts to see 60017 in the spring before it was stored.

Since September the DB numbers have been down to 4 and been basically covering the same workflows for the entire Autumn. 60062 Sonia has been working the patch local to me for a couple of months. 60074 and 60024 are also out and about with the remaining flows. I heard 60062 was up to about 12,000 engine hours earlier in the summer so presume will be close to the switching off mark soon. Looks like they will be all be withdrawn at that point, which should be soon, hence the end of the year being mentioned.

The 10 GBRF (if 60085 comes out) and 4 DCR examples soldier on in the meantime.

 

[ExRes]

Interesting report on WNXX this morning, with only 024, 040, 062 & 074 left available

"information received suggests the Lostock/Tunstead workings are to have the payload reduced and run an extra train to compensate to allow Class 66 operation, while the Wolverhampton/Boston steel is to be slightly reduced for Class 66 operation. The Robeston workings should be staying the same but with a pair of Class 66s deployed"

I'm not sure if the suggestion of re-gearing 66s has or is going anywhere, I've not seen any updates on that

 

[Western 52]

Some of the Robeston trains have been double 66s for a while now. Double-shedded.....

 

[Class15]

Interesting report on WNXX this morning, with only 024, 040, 062 & 074 left available

"information received suggests the Lostock/Tunstead workings are to have the payload reduced and run an extra train to compensate to allow Class 66 operation, while the Wolverhampton/Boston steel is to be slightly reduced for Class 66 operation. The Robeston workings should be staying the same but with a pair of Class 66s deployed"

I'm not sure if the suggestion of re-gearing 66s has or is going anywhere, I've not seen any updates on that

I’m convinced this is going to backfire. DB are taking a massive risk deploying 66s on Tunsteads, even with a reduced payload…

 

[31160]

When they took the 60s off the Immingham to scunthorpe iron ore i think there was 3? Wagons of the train that were left unfilled because the sheds couldn't cope with the train fully loaded, how the steelworks felt about that I don't know

 

[billh]

Some of the Robeston trains have been double 66s for a while now. Double-shedded.....

Driven by Arthur Two Sheds Jackson? ( see MPFC 1969)

 

[randyrippley]

The DB 60s have been withdrawn and stored one by one as they reach 20,000 engine hours. We were advised online which ones would be soon to go, so for example, I made some attempts to see 60017 in the spring before it was stored.

So how much remedial work do they need at 20,000 hours? What is the time-limiting issue?

 

[Merle Haggard]

When they took the 60s off the Immingham to scunthorpe iron ore i think there was 3? Wagons of the train that were left unfilled because the sheds couldn't cope with the train fully loaded, how the steelworks felt about that I don't know

Reducing the loads when 66s replaced 60s happened as soon as the former were introduced as the 'clever solution' only EWS could think of.
And you're right - customer expects to pay less for a train; running extra trains to provide same capacity results in more costs for the same revenue.
Another reason I found it hard to accept that Burkhardt & Co were so much more clever than B.R. Railfreight management. no matter how many times they told us /s.

 

[ExRes]

So how much remedial work do they need at 20,000 hours? What is the time-limiting issue?

It starts with a complete engine rebuild and goes up in £££ from there

 

[Class73man]

Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere but thought this could do with its own thread. Pathfinder have been advised by DB that their Class 60s are being withdrawn end of 2023.

Given the fact of their sheer power, it's ashame that 60s will be stored/withdrawn, however on a bright side, there is a 60 group aiming to restore and preserve a Class 60.

 

[Rail Quest]

As DB are pulling out of providing locos for charter trains early next year, even if they weren't withdrawing their 60s they wouldn't be available for railtours after that date anyway.

On this point, Rail advent have posted an article that covers this - supposedly it's not a withdrawal of providing locos for charters in general but will see a focus change to focus on the regular tours (like the Pullman). There's apparently about half a dozen ad hoc tours that DB have committed to for 2024 outside of regular tours so not all bad by the sounds of it

DB Cargo confirms position in charter train market

DB Cargo UK has confirmed to RailAdvent its current position in the charter train operation market after various rumours started circulating.

www.railadvent.co.uk

 

[D7666]

DCR 60s are no longer maintained by DB at Toton, when 60046 was out of service earlier this year the required work, which included removal of the engine, was undertaken at Loughborough

Surely they do minor (A, B, ) exams and minor corrective maintenance and Toton; only the heavy repairs go outside ? That is a question not a statement.

 

[ExRes]

Surely they do minor (A, B, ) exams and minor corrective maintenance and Toton; only the heavy repairs go outside ? That is a question not a statement.

There hasn't been a DCR 60 into Toton for some months now, 60046 went to Loughborough for major work earlier this year while regular maintenance, and work such as the updated light clusters, is being carried out at Leicester LIP, both facilities being operated by UKRL

 

[D7666]

There hasn't been a DCR 60 into Toton for some months now, 60046 went to Loughborough for major work earlier this year while regular maintenance, and work such as the updated light clusters, is being carried out at Leicester LIP, both facilities being operated by UKRL

OK ty, sorry, I didn't actually read properly, the thread is about DB class 60, I had missed you had written DCR in not going to Toton.

I was actually asking about DB 60 not going to Toton .... d'uh.

Sorry.

 

[87electric]

Driven by Arthur Two Sheds Jackson? ( see MPFC 1969)

Brilliant. I remember it like yesterday.

 

[Cowley]

The discussions around preservation are in the thread below now:

Preserved class 60s.

Given the fact of their sheer power, it's ashame that 60s will be stored/withdrawn, however on a bright side, there is a 60 group aiming to restore and preserve a Class 60. Mods note - split from this thread Link to the group, they are very formative however...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Rail Quest]

An article from Rail Advent today has confirmed the withdrawal.

Link to the article: https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/1...ass-66s-to-withdraw-class-60-locomotives.html

A DB Cargo spokesperson said “The Class 66 continues to form the backbone of DB Cargo UK's fleet, with the Class 60 currently only used on limited traffic. After careful consideration, analysis and in collaboration with our customers, we have established that some of our services currently operated by Class 60s, could be more effectively and efficiently served by the Class 66 HTE (Higher Tractive Effort) – this will benefit our customers and the company alike.

Additionally, it also confirms the remaining class 60s will be in service until the High Tractive Effort sheds are introduced, so they will be in service into 2024.

“Four Class 60s will remain in short-term service beyond the end of the year until the new Class 66 HTEs are introduced.”

What are the services that are booked as or currently consistently hauled by a DB Class 60? The Tunstead to Lostock move mentioned earlier in the thread is the only one I know for definite. This will probs be the last few months to see 60s on these moves.

 

[Adrian Barr]

What are the services that are booked as or currently consistently hauled by a DB Class 60? The Tunstead to Lostock move mentioned earlier in the thread is the only one I know for definite. This will probs be the last few months to see 60s on these moves.

Along with the Tunstead - Lostock services, the Boston steel trains (6M08 to Wolverhampton or 6V15 to Swindon) are also booked for class 60 haulage. 60074 emerged from Toton TMD yesterday (Mon 11th Dec) to work 6E02 to Boston and 6M08 as far as Toton - it's now back on the TMD for further attention.

The Robeston tank trains to Westerleigh and Theale were solid class 60 workings until fairly recently, but I think they are now booked for class 66s (a pair on the Westerleigh trains and single 66s to Theale).

I believe only 60024 / 60062 / 60074 are left in the active pool, with 60062 currently working the Tunstead hoppers and the other two on Toton TMD.

This can be compared with the typical Class 60 workings last year - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-the-db-60s-on-fuel-flows.235154/post-5807763

I’m convinced this is going to backfire. DB are taking a massive risk deploying 66s on Tunsteads, even with a reduced payload…

DB Class 66s already regularly work off Tunstead on the Washwood Heath aggregate trains, formed of 22 HRAs (roughly 2200 tons trailing load). The climb from Tunstead to Peak is the issue - 66s are regularly working heavy trains from Peak via Northwich on the way to Warrington Dallam with 24 wagons, but a standard Class 66 would not be able to haul the same load from Tunstead up to Peak.

Class 60s have always been preferred on the Lostock trains, working the regular set of 24 hoppers, although a quirk of the current operation is that quite often only 20 of the set are loaded due to limited storage capacity at the receiving terminal. The old method of working involved half the train being emptied at Lostock, then continuing to Oakleigh (prior to its closure around 10 years ago) to empty the other half, so this wasn't an issue. The set has inner (non-buffered) and outer wagons which probably explains why they don't just leave 4 wagons at Tunstead instead.

 

[Rail Quest]

Along with the Tunstead - Lostock services, the Boston steel trains (6M08 to Wolverhampton or 6V15 to Swindon) are also booked for class 60 haulage. 60074 emerged from Toton TMD yesterday (Mon 11th Dec) to work 6E02 to Boston and 6M08 as far as Toton - it's now back on the TMD for further attention.

The Robeston tank trains to Westerleigh and Theale were solid class 60 workings until fairly recently, but I think they are now booked for class 66s (a pair on the Westerleigh trains and single 66s to Theale).

I believe only 60024 / 60062 / 60074 are left in the active pool, with 60062 currently working the Tunstead hoppers and the other two on Toton TMD.

This can be compared with the typical Class 60 workings last year - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-the-db-60s-on-fuel-flows.235154/post-5807763

Thanks for the detailed info!!

 

[The_Train]

60074 has moved over to Peak Forest to be used as a shunter by Victa

 

[Rail Quest]

60074 has moved over to Peak Forest to be used as a shunter by Victa

Isn't that Puma? Thought that one had failed in service recently

 

[ExRes]

60074 has moved over to Peak Forest to be used as a shunter by Victa

Something had to replace the 20s as one of them suffered wheel flats, might as well use a 60 before they join the DB scrap line

 

[The_Train]

Isn't that Puma? Thought that one had failed in service recently

It's been under maintenance status over the last week or so

Something had to replace the 20s as one of them suffered wheel flats, might as well use a 60 before they join the DB scrap line

Slightly off topic, but do you know where the 20s have gone to?