Deansgate; Manchester too busy? Close the station!

[Bevan Price]

But my suggestion if there are too few seats for too many passengers would be to co-join with the council and have extra buses from the two stations (like RRB's) to get pax to places like Bolton and Wigan where they could connect to trains (which should be partially emptying) from there.

The councils have no buses of their own, and as that nice Mr Osborne has cut a lot of their funds, they are reducing (or ending) spending on supported bus services. Also, for a bus journey from Manchester to Wigan, you would probably need at least one hour at peak times - a sure way to encourage people to use cars rather than public transport.

 

[Bungle965]

Man Utd have home games at Old Trafford on Dec 5th and 19th with 1500 starts finishing near 1700 ; many fans use Deansgate for interchange after the game. Having 75000 at each game will only add to pressure on public transport and the roads ...

Well Northern are not running there additional trains to the football ground. Unsure why though?
Sam

 

[Altfish]

Isn't part of the issue that Manchester City council are putting on an event (Christmas markets) that is causing a demand to the point the infrastructure cannot cope? They would refuse planning permission for buildings if the local water supply / sewage / electric supply capacity etc... was insufficient, but yet they let this go on. Why shouldn't they pay for some extra capacity (assuming rolling stock can be found)?

The Xmas Markets in Manchester have been a regular event for the last 10 years plus; the dates are known there are absolutely no surprises.

The problem is Northern's inability to plan ahead. Chester Races, Southport Flower Show, RHS Show at Tatton to name just a few, these events take them by surprise every year.

 

[Kite159]

Well Northern are not running there additional trains to the football ground. Unsure why though?
Sam

RTT disagrees with you, seems to suggest 3 services to MUFC on the 5th, and 3 services away from MUFC after the game.

Nothing is showing for the 19th

 

[Bungle965]

RTT disagrees with you, seems to suggest 3 services to MUFC on the 5th, and 3 services away from MUFC after the game.

Nothing is showing for the 19th

Opps sorry i meant to say for tonights game.
Sam

 

[Howardh]

The councils have no buses of their own, and as that nice Mr Osborne has cut a lot of their funds, they are reducing (or ending) spending on supported bus services. Also, for a bus journey from Manchester to Wigan, you would probably need at least one hour at peak times - a sure way to encourage people to use cars rather than public transport.

Northern are taking a lot of money in passenger fares. Those passengers expect to get home, and if the trains are so busy that they can't get on then Northern have enough in fares to put on the extra buses/coaches themselves. And if Manchester Council are putting on winter markets, they should use some of that money from the rent to get people home!

 

[Altfish]

Northern are taking a lot of money in passenger fares. Those passengers expect to get home, and if the trains are so busy that they can't get on then Northern have enough in fares to put on the extra buses/coaches themselves. And if Manchester Council are putting on winter markets, they should use some of that money from the rent to get people home!

The privatised railway never ceases to amaze me.
Any other business would rub their hands with glee if they were being handed extra customers on a plate. Instead, despite having 12-months notice of the extra demand they decide to close a convenient outlet.

 

[Howardh]

The privatised railway never ceases to amaze me.
Any other business would rub their hands with glee if they were being handed extra customers on a plate. Instead, despite having 12-months notice of the extra demand they decide to close a convenient outlet.

What would happen if the last train is 10.50pm, there are 200 that can't get on because it's packed? That's a lot of taxis at huge expense!!

 

[trainophile]

If people have bought a return ticket, surely it is breach of contract if their return journey becomes unavailable.

 

[Altfish]

What would happen if the last train is 10.50pm, there are 200 that can't get on because it's packed? That's a lot of taxis at huge expense!!

But, instead of the defeatist question you ask; shouldn't the question be, "How can we make sure that we leave no one behind and there is room for those waiting to travel?"

Successful city centre events should not be jeopardised by the failings of public transport.

Manchester trams don't seem to have this problem.

 

[NSEFAN]

But, instead of the defeatist question you ask; shouldn't the question be, "How can we make sure that we leave no one behind and there is room for those waiting to travel?"

Successful city centre events should not be jeopardised by the failings of public transport.

Manchester trams don't seem to have this problem.

You're right, the events shouldn't be jeopardised. That's why closing the station to prevent dangerous overcrowding is the best option*.

*In light of the systematic underinvestment in Northern regarding rolling stock and staff provision, and also the constraints in Deansgate station itself.

 

[Thomas6187]

Well Northern are not running there additional trains to the football ground. Unsure why though?
Sam

No trains ran tonight due to extra security measures being put in place outside the ground. All the train alterations had been placed into the "system" but only ran up to Manchester Oxford Road

 

[Bungle965]

No trains ran tonight due to extra security measures being put in place outside the ground. All the train alterations had been placed into the "system" but only ran up to Manchester Oxford Road

Ahhh right okay thanks.
Sam

 

[John07]

To a mere bystander, if a train gets almost full at Piccadilly, and then packed to the roof @ Oxford Road, no-one can get on at Deansgate.
Why not have every other train not stopping at each?

Plenty of trains, notably TPE trains from Scotland, do not stop at Deansgate.

The problem is that Oxford Road is very convenient for a number of hotels and the Universities while Deansgate (or Knott Mill as I prefer to call it) is great for accessing Metrolink for those travelling to Salford Quays and beyond. It saves a lot of time when compared to changing at Piccadilly (London Road!).

Closing Knott Mill is not an option as long as Oxford Road is not connected to Metrolink. That is not going to happen in the foreseeable future.

 

[geoffk]

I saw there were crowd control barriers and one-way walking routes at Manchester Vic on my last visit (a week ago) and was told it was because of the Christmas market. At least the concourse there is big enough to cope.

 

[Altfish]

Plenty of trains, notably TPE trains from Scotland, do not stop at Deansgate.

The problem is that Oxford Road is very convenient for a number of hotels and the Universities while Deansgate (or Knott Mill as I prefer to call it) is great for accessing Metrolink for those travelling to Salford Quays and beyond. It saves a lot of time when compared to changing at Piccadilly (London Road!).

Closing Knott Mill is not an option as long as Oxford Road is not connected to Metrolink. That is not going to happen in the foreseeable future.

Deansgate is also very convenient for the Castlefield area and the best stop for Spinningfields.

 

[ian959]

Instead, despite having 12-months notice of the extra demand they decide to close a convenient outlet.

Having advance notice means nothing if there simply are not the available trains to cope with the extra demand, nor does it mean anything if the station itself is not able to cope with the extra patronage. Northern Rail would no doubt love to have the extra trains and would love to keep the station open but since they don't control the purse strings to provide the solution in either situation...

 

[PermitToTravel]

Plenty of trains, notably TPE trains from Scotland, do not stop at Deansgate.

The problem is that Oxford Road is very convenient for a number of hotels and the Universities while Deansgate (or Knott Mill as I prefer to call it) is great for accessing Metrolink for those travelling to Salford Quays and beyond. It saves a lot of time when compared to changing at Piccadilly (London Road!).

Closing Knott Mill is not an option as long as Oxford Road is not connected to Metrolink. That is not going to happen in the foreseeable future.

In really doesn't help that this year, the tram stop nearest Oxford Road station (St Peter's Square) is closed for the 2CC works

 

[Wolf]

To a mere bystander, if a train gets almost full at Piccadilly, and then packed to the roof @ Oxford Road, no-one can get on at Deansgate.
Why not have every other train not stopping at each?
So the first train to Southport stops @ Oxford Rd but not Deansgate....the second 'tother way round, which as these times is well known in advance they could be timetabled accordingly.

But really we need more and longer trains.....however we don't live in Utopia.

Control would likely refuse to allow a sudden change to stopping patterns based on sudden increases in passenger loadings like this because there is likely to be already people on the train wanting stops which you are asking permission to miss, I think stuff like this needs slightly more planning and time to issue an official no to stop order and/or stop order rather than just phoning control up and getting verbal permission to skip a station.

 

[Howardh]

Control would likely refuse to allow a sudden change to stopping patterns based on sudden increases in passenger loadings like this because there is likely to be already people on the train wanting stops which you are asking permission to miss, I think stuff like this needs slightly more planning and time to issue an official no to stop order and/or stop order rather than just phoning control up and getting verbal permission to skip a station.

I did say *in advance* meaning timetabling changes for next year rather than this, as all this congestion is anticipated and expected, although this should have been done for the current season and timetabled in accordingly some months ago.

Next Saturday has the added problem of one of the football clubs being at home 3pm...that's not going to help the situation come 6pm!

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Having trains alternately skip the station is all well and good if they are all going to the same destination, but inevitably some services will end up stopping more or less at Deansgate and passengers are going to get confused as to which services will and won't stop.

Also, it won't do anything to help with overcrowding at the station. Unfortunately most 'normal' people don't sit and read train timetables. They know that their trains usually pass through Deansgate, so will go there and wait for the next service. If anything it risks less than full trains passing straight through and leading to twice as many people cramming onto the next service.

Personally I think closing the station is the best idea - it will avoid any confusion over which trains are stopping where and limit the risk of crushes. I think Northern should be congratulated for a pro-active approach where many other train companies might have just sat back and let things happen before last second changes.

 

[Altfish]

Next Saturday has the added problem of one of the football clubs being at home 3pm...that's not going to help the situation come 6pm!

Must say, that is unusual, Premiership football at 3:00 on a Saturday...those were the days.:roll:

 

[Howardh]

Must say, that is unusual, Premiership football at 3:00 on a Saturday...those were the days.:roll:

There are three clubs near me, two fondly remember the PL as a memory of the past, and a third (my lot) that have never been in it, and have as much chance of being in it as getting HS2 to stop at Lostock
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Having trains alternately skip the station is all well and good if they are all going to the same destination, but inevitably some services will end up stopping more or less at Deansgate and passengers are going to get confused as to which services will and won't stop.

Also, it won't do anything to help with overcrowding at the station. Unfortunately most 'normal' people don't sit and read train timetables. They know that their trains usually pass through Deansgate, so will go there and wait for the next service. If anything it risks less than full trains passing straight through and leading to twice as many people cramming onto the next service.

Seriously..before they set out from places like Bolton, Wigan, Chorley etc, will they KNOW Deansgate's closed on their return? I would imagine that every station on those lines will have posters up (at least) - is that the case?

And if they are tied to a schedule, once they get to their local station and find they can't get their scheduled train back (not that they might anyway!!) and going to Oxford Rd or Piccadilly isn't convenient timewise - will they turn back?

This weekend, as I know Deansgate will be closed and Oxford Rd crammed, I will be off to my hockey game in the car (adding to the congestion) and avoiding the rail altogether. Also means I can't have my after-match skinful so the situation's doubly painful for me!!

 

[glbotu]

I'm surprised they don't stop everything at Deansgate - Piccadilly as a "Manchester Thameslink", type service, where regardless of whether it's a regional express train or a suburban service, it would stop all stations in the "core". Surely that would be operationally way more convenient/sensible.

 

[HowardGWR]

This weekend, as I know Deansgate will be closed and Oxford Rd crammed, I will be off to my hockey game in the car (adding to the congestion) and avoiding the rail altogether. Also means I can't have my after-match skinful so the situation's doubly painful for me!!

Where is the hockey pitch between Deansgate and Oxford Road then?

 

[telstarbox]

I'm surprised they don't stop everything at Deansgate - Piccadilly as a "Manchester Thameslink", type service, where regardless of whether it's a regional express train or a suburban service, it would stop all stations in the "core". Surely that would be operationally way more convenient/sensible.

I haven't lived in Manchester for a few years but Oxford Road has a denser daytime population around the station with the universities and offices, compared with Deansgate. Of course this may change as the First Street and Granada development schemes come forward.