Decarbonising Scotland’s Railways

[Trainbike46]

Electrification work bid on Victorian viaduct in Galashiels withdrawn

An application for electrification work on a Victorian viaduct near Galashiels has been withdrawn after conservation concerns were raised.

www.bordertelegraph.com

News on the Galafoot viaduct - planning application related.

disappointing to see that they have withdrawn the planning permission application

 

[takno]

disappointing to see that they have withdrawn the planning permission application

Looks like they've probably determined that it needs some planning work in order to pass, and withdrawn it so that work can be scheduled and/or done.

 

[snowball]

Has anything been heard in the last year or so about progress, or the lack of it, on the feeder stations at Currie, Portobello or Newton?

They are three of the six contracted in summer 2022, and are the ones of which I have heard nothing.

 

[59CosG95]

Has anything been heard in the last year or so about progress, or the lack of it, on the feeder stations at Currie, Portobello or Newton?

They are three of the six contracted in summer 2022, and are the ones of which I have heard nothing.

I believe construction work at Currie is complete, and works are underway at Portobello (insofar as that a works compound has been established). Devegetation west of the existing FS/TSC seems to have been done at Newton.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Electrification work bid on Victorian viaduct in Galashiels withdrawn

An application for electrification work on a Victorian viaduct near Galashiels has been withdrawn after conservation concerns were raised.

www.bordertelegraph.com

News on the Galafoot viaduct - planning application related.

There were two apparently identical applications made - one is now shown as being withdrawn, the other is shown as 'awaiting decision'.

https://eplanning.scotborders.gov.uk/online-applications/caseDetails.do?caseType=Application&keyVal=RHVLZXNTJY500

 

[SC318250]

With the suspension of the RMT strike on Scotrail, in the press release from Scotrail, they say new trains from around 2030… so I take it the Class 318/320/334 replacement is pushed back to at least 2030?

 

[jagardner1984]

With the suspension of the RMT strike on Scotrail, in the press release from Scotrail, they say new trains from around 2030… so I take it the Class 318/320/334 replacement is pushed back to at least 2030?

Sometimes it is helpful to remember these markers of the first time it was conceded it would be 2030 (by which time the 318 will be almost 45 years in service).

If only someone had told them the need for a replacement was approaching ‍♂️

Expensive times if they get the invoice for the HST and suburban EMU replacements in the same week !

 

[snowball]

With the suspension of the RMT strike on Scotrail, in the press release from Scotrail, they say new trains from around 2030… so I take it the Class 318/320/334 replacement is pushed back to at least 2030?

Is this press release online anywhere? I tried last night and again this afternoon but both times, when I went to this page and clicked on "Latest news", it said "The website encountered an unexpected error. Please try again later."

 

[chuff chuff]

Top of their Facebook

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 May 2024 ==

There was an internal email saying they still putting the business plan together for the various new traction and that will be put to transport scotland/government later this year.

 

[snowball]

Top of their Facebook

Thank you. Found it eventually:

RMT strike action on ScotRail services cancelled after agreement reached:
Strike action that was due to take place this weekend (18 and 19 May) has been cancelled, with services operating as normal. This follows agreement between the ScotRail and the RMT trade union following conciliation through the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service (Acas).
Conductor members of the RMT trade union based at Glasgow Central, Dumfries, Ayr, and Stranraer recently voted in favour of industrial action in a dispute over the mode of operation on electric services to Barrhead. Strike action was due to take place on three consecutive weekends, starting this weekend.
ScotRail and the RMT have agreed that consultation will take place on the mode of operation on routes where new electric trains will be deployed, which is anticipated to be around 2030. This allows for more than five years to carry out meaningful consultation.
Phil Campbell, ScotRail Customer Operations Director, said:
“We are pleased to have reached agreement with the RMT, which avoids disruption to ScotRail customers this weekend. The focus for all of us at ScotRail is on delivering a safe, reliable, and green service for our passengers.
“Ahead of the introduction of new electric trains, ScotRail will consult with trade union colleagues about the mode of operation.”

 

[SC318250]

I am guessing that if a tender goes out at the end of the year, then it is looking like 2029 before any new fleet would be delivered?
This being the case, the Class 320 will need another Tbox as will the Class 318?

 

[snookertam]

ScotRail already has one of the oldest fleets in Britain. Pretty poor show that replacements may still be around 6 years away.

 

[SC318250]

ScotRail already has one of the oldest fleets in Britain. Pretty poor show that replacements may still be around 6 years away.

Am I right in saying that although the Class 318 are 38 yrs old this year they are still pretty reliable, as are the Class 320 ?

 

[najaB]

If I was the one making decisions (and to be clear, I am not), I would press ahead with ordering a fleet of BEMUs and EMUs, to replace the life-expired EMUs (318s and 320s), and the DMUs on the fife circle, borders, and some of the services around Glasgow.

By then the 156s would likely be life-expired, but I'd shift the 158s and 170s onto the IC workings, replacing the HSTs in that way.

That might be the pragmatic approach, but in an ideal world the IC workings would be served by stock that was best suited for longer-distance routes. So end doors, decent first class provision, a buffet/shop, ideally no underfloor diesel engines. Probably with a mix of train lengths of three, four and six carriages.

(Yes, I'm pretty much describing the Stadler FLIRT).

 

[Trainbike46]

That might be the pragmatic approach, but in an ideal world the IC workings would be served by stock that was best suited for longer-distance routes. So end doors, decent first class provision, a buffet/shop, ideally no underfloor diesel engines. Probably with a mix of train lengths of three, four and six carriages.

(Yes, I'm pretty much describing the Stadler FLIRT).

Fully agreed, but the 170s and 158s are reasonably suitable and do already substitute for the HSTs at times

(tbh I would hope that the (B)EMU order would be a FLIRT, or something like it too)

I'll just repeat my position that level boarding at the standard UK platform height should be an absolute requirement for all new rolling stock orders, including those for Scotland

 

[najaB]

Fully agreed, but the 170s and 158s are reasonably suitable and do already substitute for the HSTs at times

Thing is, they're already 20+ years old, so will likely be up for replacement in the not too distant future anyway. One order to replace the HSTs and the majority of the 170/158 fleets at the same time should give a lower per-unit price.

 

[SC318250]

I would say that the fact no announcement has been made that there is a probability that the Class 318 will be at least 43-45 years old before retirement

 

[59CosG95]

Network Rail powers ahead with new feeder station at Tweedbank

NETWORK Rail is powering ahead with plans for a new feeder station at Tweedbank, it has emerged.

www.bordertelegraph.com

Bit of an interesting read this - seems that the planning application has gone in to Scottish Borders Council for the new FS at Tweedbank, but the project appears to be standalone, and not strictly part of bringing wires to the Borders Railway at this time.

 

[snowball]

Network Rail powers ahead with new feeder station at Tweedbank

NETWORK Rail is powering ahead with plans for a new feeder station at Tweedbank, it has emerged.

www.bordertelegraph.com

Bit of an interesting read this - seems that the planning application has gone in to Scottish Borders Council for the new FS at Tweedbank, but the project appears to be standalone, and not strictly part of bringing wires to the Borders Railway at this time.

Proposed works nearby, at the grid substation that will feed the rail feeder station, were discussed in February in the Borders line decarbonisation thread:

Borders line (Scotland) electrification news and updates

From Midlothian View: https://www.midlothianview.com/news/borders-railway-electrification-bid-revealed/ Borders Railway electrification bid revealed Electrifying plans which would lead to a greener future for part of the rail network in the Borders have been disclosed. Network Rail has...

www.railforums.co.uk

Tweedbank is one of six feeder stations in and around central Scotland that were contracted in 2022. Four of them are adjacent to existing electrified lines (though also relevant to supplying proposed electrifications, including Ferguslie which no doubt helps to supply the completed Barrhead line). The other two, Tweedbank and Thornton, are not adjacent to existing electrified lines. When the financial situation deteriorated, the electrifications could be postponed or slowed down, but the feeder stations were already committed.

Maybe there has been some deliberate slowing down of these within the terms of the contract. I think the most recently published completion date for both is September 2026, well behind what was being said 1.5 - 2 years ago.

 

[waverley47]

Proposed works nearby, at the grid substation that will feed the rail feeder station, were discussed in February in the Borders line decarbonisation thread:

Borders line (Scotland) electrification news and updates

From Midlothian View: https://www.midlothianview.com/news/borders-railway-electrification-bid-revealed/ Borders Railway electrification bid revealed Electrifying plans which would lead to a greener future for part of the rail network in the Borders have been disclosed. Network Rail has...

www.railforums.co.uk

Tweedbank is one of six feeder stations in and around central Scotland that were contracted in 2022. Four of them are adjacent to existing electrified lines (though also relevant to supplying proposed electrifications, including Ferguslie which no doubt helps to supply the completed Barrhead line). The other two, Tweedbank and Thornton, are not adjacent to existing electrified lines. When the financial situation deteriorated, the electrifications could be postponed or slowed down, but the feeder stations were already committed.

Maybe there has been some deliberate slowing down of these within the terms of the contract. I think the most recently published completion date for both is September 2026, well behind what was being said 1.5 - 2 years ago.

There have been massive problems on the National Grid side in terms of infrastructure building. Unfortunately NG are the ones who build the feeder stations and transformers and power lines, and they have seen timescales stretch and costs spiral with inflation over the last few years.

The slide in delivery estimates is probably beneficial for Transport Scotland, not having to pay for infrastructure that is sitting unused, however even if the knitting was up already, these feeder stations would still be delayed.

 

[snowball]

I think the approach of signing the contracts for the feeder stations first is a good one.

 

[mcmad]

There have been massive problems on the National Grid side in terms of infrastructure building. Unfortunately NG are the ones who build the feeder stations and transformers and power lines, and they have seen timescales stretch and costs spiral with inflation over the last few years.

Pretty sure that national grid doesn't own the grid in Scotland, instead it sits with the 2 former Scottish regional boards, now Scottish Power and SSEN ?

 

[najaB]

Pretty sure that national grid doesn't own the grid in Scotland, instead it sits with the 2 former Scottish regional boards, now Scottish Power and SSEN ?

Isn't that the distribution network? Nope, I was wrong. Now that I think about it, I've seen SSE signs on pylons around here.

 

[snowball]

A small step appears to have been taken, fairly recently, towards Thornton feeder station, key to the proposed partial (and perhaps later full) electrification in Fife.

I haven't seen a planning application for the feeder station itself, or anything showing its exact location, but the forum established two years ago that it will be powered by an underground cable from the existing 275kV Glenrothes grid substation, located at Huntingtower Park, NW of most of Glenrothes and NE of Leslie, and that this will require enlargement of the substation site.

In February this year SP Energy Networks sought a screening opinion from Fife council on whether the enlargement requires an environmental impact assessment. The council has decided that it doesn't. A full planning application for the enlargement will follow.

The proposal appears to be a modification of one submitted in 2022 and then withdrawn.

 

[snowball]

Scottish Road Works Online shows current work on behalf of Network Rail to dig trial holes at Winston Road, Galashiels, to determine the location of underground utility apparatus. This is no doubt in preparation for laying the underground cable along Winston Road between the grid substation and the proposed Tweedbank feeder station (see posts above, e.g. #288-#289).

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Scottish Road Works Online shows current work on behalf of Network Rail to dig trial holes at Winston Road, Galashiels, to determine the location of underground utility apparatus. This is no doubt in preparation for laying the underground cable along Winston Road between the grid substation and the proposed Tweedbank feeder station (see posts above, e.g. #288-#289).

I wonder how much all these new feeder stations are costing Transport for Scotland with very little likelihood they will see any use this decade given the current spending constraints that the Scottish govt is having to deal with.

 

[snowball]

I wonder how much all these new feeder stations are costing Transport for Scotland with very little likelihood they will see any use this decade given the current spending constraints that the Scottish govt is having to deal with.

According to post #38 of this thread, £120M for six feeder stations plus upgrades for nine existing sites (feeder stations or track sectioning cabins), but that includes work needed for feeding Barrhead, East Kilbride and Dalmeny, and improving supplies for already electrified lines.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

According to post #38 of this thread, £120M for six feeder stations plus upgrades for nine existing sites (feeder stations or track sectioning cabins), but that includes work needed for feeding Barrhead, East Kilbride and Dalmeny, and improving supplies for already electrified lines.

Fair point that some of the investment supports electrification schemes that are in progress and reinforcing existing supplies but several could end up being white elephants any maybe have been better to have deferred some of them to release funding to commence electrification on another route.

 

[takno]

Fair point that some of the investment supports electrification schemes that are in progress and reinforcing existing supplies but several could end up being white elephants any maybe have been better to have deferred some of them to release funding to commence electrification on another route.

The lead time on grid connections is huge, and completely outwith the railway's control. Getting clever about trying to optimise this sort of thing is exactly how costs run out of control on projects. Unless there is absolutely no prospect of ever using it you should just get it done while you can.

 

[najaB]

Unless there is absolutely no prospect of ever using it you should just get it done while you can.

Also, the cheapest time to do major infrastructure work was always "ten years ago".

Provided that it's well maintained such that it's useable when you need it, it can be considerably cheaper to do it now and mothball it rather than pay double the amount later on.