December 2018 timetable changes (some now confirmed scrapped) - contagion spreads

[Esker-pades]

There was a recent update from our local RUG. GTR are planning to have the May 2018 Thameslink timetable implemented by December. Also in the December timetable the evening Kings Cross to Ely/Kings Lynn services will leave 3 minutes earlier at xx:09 and xx:39 which allows for the half hourly calls at Letchworth and Royston to be reinstated.

So Cambridge will loose its non-stop services? That's a fairly bad move given the traffic between the two.

 

[philjo]

So Cambridge will loose its non-stop services? That's a fairly bad move given the traffic between the two.

The evening services after 1900 have always stopped every half hour at Letchworth and Royston for many years but the Letchworth calls were dropped in May as they could not be fitted into the Thameslink timetable. This meant that Letchworth mainly only had stopping services in the evenings. It also helps the villages as the connections will be better at Letchworth or Royston from the fast service into a stopper.

 

[Esker-pades]

The evening services after 1900 have always stopped every half hour at Letchworth and Royston for many years but the Letchworth calls were dropped in May as they could not be fitted into the Thameslink timetable. This meant that Letchworth mainly only had stopping services in the evenings. It also helps the villages as the connections will be better at Letchworth or Royston from the fast service into a stopper.

I was aware of the evening and rush hour changes, but from what I understand your original post to say, this will also mean weekend and all off-peak services will stop. That will make already rammed services even more rammed.

 

[philjo]

I was aware of the evening and rush hour changes, but from what I understand your original post to say, this will also mean weekend and all off-peak services will stop. That will make already rammed services even more rammed.

No, this only applies to weekday evenings after 1900.
We still don't know what is planned for weekends as GN route currently only gets the same frequency as prior to the May changes so Cambridge branch stations still only get 1 semi-fast and 1 stopper.

 

[Kieran1990]

You own me one

Rail bosses were today condemned as “cack-handed” by a northern metro mayor after it emerged they were planning to to introduce a interim timetable that would cut short services in North Yorkshire.

Politcal leaders rejected plans by TransPennine Express for a timetable change from October 15 to see it through the autumn period to December, when longer-term changes are promised to improve its under-performing service.

The recommendations prompted a furious response from Ben Houchen, the Conservative metro mayor of Tees Valley, who brought them up at a Transport for the North board meeting in Sheffield today. Mr Houchen said the changes would see five off-peak trains a day from Middlesbrough to Manchester Airport via Thirsk and Northallerton, terminate at York, while five trains in the other direction would start their journey in York.

On the route from Newcastle to Manchester Airport via Darlington, five direct services would be removed completely, with the following three trains starting at York. From Manchester Airport, eight services on this route would run to York only. Trans-Pennine rail £2.9bn upgrade will cause five years of route closures, longer journeys and less capacity He called on TransPennine managing director Leo Goodwin, who was taking questions at the meeting, to withdraw the proposal and said the operator has not learned the lessons from this summer’s timetable chaos. The seven-week timetable change was later rejected at a meeting of the Rail North board, which manages the TransPennine franchise. During the earlier meeting Mr Goodwin and representatives from Network Rail and fellow operator Northern were heavily criticised for their response to the botched introduction of a new timetable.

Greater Manchester metro mayor Andy Burnham said the performance of the two operators was still worse than this time last year, while fellow Labour politician Judith Blake, the leader of Leeds city council, criticised the continued short-forming of trains. Mr Goodwin said changes planned for December would bring bring about “stable services for passengers” but that the operator had been asked to further stabilise service ahead of this point. He said the proposal was a recommendation and would give customers extra flexibility. He added that arrangements like this had been put forward in previous autumns, where leaf fall often causes a problem for trains, and that this year’s was similar in scale to that 12 months ago. He said: “We have put this proposal forward to give passengers a more predictable and reliable service ahead of the structural changes planned for December.”

But Mr Houchen said the proposal was “not good enough”, adding that his office had only been informed about the plans the previous afternoon. “What you’re coming forward with is a cack-handed proposal which you is similar to last year but is actually very different. “You are asking us to make a decision on something without all of the facts, it puts us in a very difficult position.” A decision on whether the interim timetable would be introduced was due to be made this afternoon by the board of Rail North, which helps manage the Northern and TransPennine franchises. Though Rail North meetings are held in public, today’s at the Mercure hotel in Sheffield city centre was held almost entirely behind closed doors as the items being discussed were commercially sensitive.

Read more at: https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co...etable-rejected-by-northern-leaders-1-9348646

Sorry to ask the obvious question but is TPE going ahead with plan? Or has TfN put an end to it?

 

[Aictos]

Sorry to ask the obvious question but is TPE going ahead with plan? Or has TfN put an end to it?

No idea, all that tells me is TPE have proposed changes and the local politicians have argued against it.

 

[nr758123]

No idea, all that tells me is TPE have proposed changes and the local politicians have argued against it.

In the confidential part of the meeting, so no public documents to set out what the proposals were (apart from press reports and tweets from Andy Burnham and Ben Houchen), and if there were any benefits to passengers elsewhere on the network.

i do feel there is a public interest in knowing what was proposed, and who would have been the winners and losers from this proposal. Political decisions such as this should be transparent and open to public scrutiny.

 

[bramling]

The evening services after 1900 have always stopped every half hour at Letchworth and Royston for many years but the Letchworth calls were dropped in May as they could not be fitted into the Thameslink timetable. This meant that Letchworth mainly only had stopping services in the evenings. It also helps the villages as the connections will be better at Letchworth or Royston from the fast service into a stopper.

How come it's now allegedly possible to fit the Letchworth calls in when I'm sure I remember it being said this "wasn't possible"?

To me it seems fairly sensible - the evening Letchworth / Royston / Cambridge pattern was established for many years and seemed to work well. Another example of Thameslink Programme messing up arrangements which worked well for many years.

The evening fast 365 services to Baldock / Letchworth are well received in the current timetable, hope they won't be changing.

 

[js1000]

Sorry to ask the obvious question but is TPE going ahead with plan? Or has TfN put an end to it?

TfN are part of the problem - not the solution. They want it both ways which they can't have.

They want every major settlement in the North to have a direct rail service to Manchester/Manchester Airport yet they don't realise that there is only a limited amount of paths and the routes in and out of Manchester have become immensely congested.

TPE are being wise by temporarily curtailing their services to Manchester Airport - it's common for services from the North East to terminate at Manchester Victoria/Piccadilly and never make it onto the Airport. Passengers will say they would rather train companies run a service they can promise to deliver as opposed to none at all. It will also help enormously if Northern introduce their new trains on services to and from the Airport. They'll be faster and have double leaf doors at thirds which should reduce dwell times at Piccadilly 13/14 and reduce knock-on delays.

 

[CyrusWuff]

The industry consultation for Chiltern's December timetable (aka the 126th Supplemental Agreement) has appeared on the Network Rail site: http://archive.nr.co.uk/browseDirec...26th SA - Section 22 - Closes 12 October 2018

Looks to mostly be a roll over of the current timetable with a few changes:

• New 1630SX Aylesbury to Marylebone via Amersham
• New 0028FO (Friday night/Saturday morning) Marylebone to Aylesbury via Amersham
• New 0720SuO Aylesbury to Marylebone via High Wycombe calling at Princes Risborough, High Wycombe and Gerrards Cross
• Paddington service cut back to West Ealing (bay platform) due to HS2 work severing the coonnection to the Wycombe Single at Old Oak Common

 

[pemma]

Post 10th December times for XC, Virgin and LNER services are now showing on RTT

 

[pemma]

According to a rail user's group the 16:49 Alderley Edge to Southport will call at Oxford Road from the December timetable change.

 

[nr758123]

Leeds to Manchester stopping service to be split at Huddersfield from December timetable change, and Slaithwaite and Batley calls to be switched from Hull service, to improve reliability on both.

Given the number of cancellations, and in particular the number of Hull services being turned round at Stalybridge, it's obvious that the timetable was unworkable and something needed to change. A bit unfortunate that the change couldn't be made now and instead we have to endure a further three months.

Amendments to TransPennine Express timetable from December 2018


As you will be aware, our services have been affected by a range of performance issues since the introduction of the May 2018 timetable which has affected the punctuality and reliability of our services on the North TransPennine route.


We wanted to take the opportunity to outline performance improvement changes we will be introducing to the timetable in December to provide greater resilience for services on this route. Since May, over 70% of delays to our services have been caused by factors outside the direct control of TransPennine Express. We have therefore worked with Network Rail and Northern to develop an industry plan to deliver improvements to train service performance.


With the agreement of Transport for the North and the Rail North Partnership, and following consultation with their local authority members, as part of the timetable change on 09 December 2018 we will make amendments to a small number of TransPennine Express services as follows:

• The current service that operates in each direction between Manchester Piccadilly and Leeds, calling at Stalybridge, Greenfield, Marsden, Huddersfield, Deighton, Mirfield, Ravensthorpe, Dewsbury, Batley and Morley will from this date be operated by two separate trains as follows:
  • Manchester Piccadilly to Huddersfield, calling at Stalybridge, Greenfield, Marsden and Slaithwaite
  • Huddersfield to Leeds calling at Deighton, Mirfield, Ravensthorpe, Dewsbury, Batley, Morley and Cottingley

• The current service that operates between Hull and Manchester Piccadilly will have two stops removed and will no longer call at Batley or Slaithwaite. These calls will now be made in the newly introduced Huddersfield to Leeds and Manchester to Huddersfield services respectively (as above)
• We will make changes to increase the turnaround time of Newcastle/Middlesbrough to Manchester Airport services at Manchester Airport. This does not alter the timetable for customers but will improve the reliability of these services

We are confident these changes will provide customers with a more resilient and reliable service.


These changes have also enabled us to make progress on responding to stakeholder requests for improved local station connectivity between Manchester and Huddersfield and Leeds and Huddersfield and to reduce the number of stations calls between Hull and Manchester.


There are no other structural changes being made to the timetable at December. Timetables (on-line, printed and published at stations) will be available in advance of the winter timetable change as per normal. We will circulate links to these timetables once available.


We will continue to closely monitor performance and assess the impact and effectiveness of these changes and consider, particularly in light of the performance of services in and around Manchester, whether further amendments will be required to improve train service performance.


We look forward to introducing these service changes on 09 December 2018.

 

[pemma]

Leeds to Manchester stopping service to be split at Huddersfield from December timetable change, and Slaithwaite and Batley calls to be switched from Hull service, to improve reliability on both.

Given the number of cancellations, and in particular the number of Hull services being turned round at Stalybridge, it's obvious that the timetable was unworkable and something needed to change. A bit unfortunate that the change couldn't be made now and instead we have to endure a further three months.

Many people will have bought tickets in advance for journeys up until 9th December, so truncating or splitting services now will cause problems for those people.

So North TPE services to Leeds from Piccadilly will end up being something like
xx:05 Middlesbrough
xx:35 Newcastle
xx:45 Hull

and arriving from Leeds
xx:20 Middlesbrough
xx:40 Leeds
xx:50 Newcastle

I hope they start putting the 5 car trains on Newcastle and Middlesbrough services very soon - they are going to need them!

It's going to seem a bit stupid having 185s on Manchester-Huddersfield and Huddersfield-Leeds all-stops services while Northern will be using 150s on longer services and some that aren't all-stops.

 

[158756]

If they're only going to stop the Hull service once between Huddersfield and Stalybridge wouldn't Marsden or Slaithwaite be more interested in a direct service to Leeds than Mossley?

 

[transmanche]

It's going to seem a bit stupid having 185s on Manchester-Huddersfield and Huddersfield-Leeds all-stops services [...]

It seems a bit daft that TPE is operating these services at all. They really belong with Northern.

 

[pemma]

If they're only going to stop the Hull service once between Huddersfield and Stalybridge wouldn't Marsden or Slaithwaite be more interested in a direct service to Leeds than Mossley?

The Hull service has the Liverpool-Newcastle close behind it, perhaps for timing purposes it works better for the Hull to do two stops close together and then run non-stop to Stalybridge?

 

[Moonshot]

It seems a bit daft that TPE is operating these services at all. They really belong with Northern.

In effect, its exactly what Northern were running prior to the timetable change in May. With the 2 bay platforms now being pretty much redundant at Victoria, you would have to wonder if the original services should be returned.

 

[nr758123]

Many people will have bought tickets in advance for journeys up until 9th December, so truncating or splitting services now will cause problems for those people.

It's been so unreliable since 20th May that anyone travelling should expect problems. It's hard to see how any changes could increase those problems.

It's going to seem a bit stupid having 185s on Manchester-Huddersfield and Huddersfield-Leeds all-stops services while Northern will be using 150s on longer services and some that aren't all-stops.

Just about the only remaining good thing from the timetable change is that the trains, when and if they turn up, have nice upholstery. Don't begrudge us that one small thing.

 

[pemma]

It's been so unreliable since 20th May that anyone travelling should expect problems. It's hard to see how any changes could increase those problems.

Much worse for anyone with connections to make at Piccadilly or Leeds who has to additionally change at Huddersfield, which could add up to 60 minutes to the total journey time even if the services running to the revised timetable run on time.

 

[323235]

Surely the obvious reason that has not been mentioned for TPE operating these services though is because of the Class 185 acceleration being needed to fit with the rest of the timetable and they also have the stock made available from Transpennine North West routes moving to Northern.

The only way Northern could take back stopping services from Manchester - Leeds is if Class 195 matched the Class 185s.

 

[Kieran1990]

Leeds to Manchester stopping service to be split at Huddersfield from December timetable change, and Slaithwaite and Batley calls to be switched from Hull service, to improve reliability on both.

Given the number of cancellations, and in particular the number of Hull services being turned round at Stalybridge, it's obvious that the timetable was unworkable and something needed to change. A bit unfortunate that the change couldn't be made now and instead we have to endure a further three months.

It’s nice to see they are taking action to address the sorry state of affairs on the North TPE route. I do hope if works out, the stopper is the biggest thorn in my commute, every night my train gets caught behind it.

Couple of questions to those theorist out there

1) Batley is losing its Hull services, what is replacing them- pretty sure Batley has a spec of 2tph? Under the Dec 18 change it’ll just have the Leeds-Hudds

2) platforming the split stoppers at Huddersfield is going to be interesting in the peaks with northern Piccadily extras occupying Plat 4. Any thoughts?

 

[Flyingsprinter]

1. Batley I’d presume the leeds to Manchester Victoria via brighouse Northern service will resume calling at Batley.
2. Can a 185 fit into platform 6 at Huddersfield? I know this is used by services to Bradford and Wakefield but if a 185 can fit then could allow for some flexibility?
Off topic I know but platform 5 at Huddersfield is a waste of time. Nothing but a pacer fits in it.

 

[158756]

1. Batley I’d presume the leeds to Manchester Victoria via brighouse Northern service will resume calling at Batley.
2. Can a 185 fit into platform 6 at Huddersfield? I know this is used by services to Bradford and Wakefield but if a 185 can fit then could allow for some flexibility?
Off topic I know but platform 5 at Huddersfield is a waste of time. Nothing but a pacer fits in it.

1) Not in the current path the Southports won't be calling, otherwise they'd be in the way of the faster trains, hence the calls being moved to the Hulls in the first place. I can't see this working without a more radical rewrite, even if it's possible.
2) If RTT is to be believed, astonishingly given the shortage of rolling stock, platform 6 is occupied for nearly the full hour at peak times by the unit for the via Bradford service.

 

[pemma]

Franchise specifications seem to be guidelines at the moment. If an operator has an excuse they can get away with fewer services. Look at Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme and many other North West stations.

 

[notlob.divad]

Franchise specifications seem to be guidelines at the moment.

I think the word is aspirational.

 

[stu99]

Northern is now in post 10th December.

 

[pemma]

Northern is now in post 10th December.

At a quick glance - Preston to York through services are the only notable change. A few minor timing revisions and previously omitted stops added to services e.g. adding Stockport to Stoke-Manchester services. No Sunday enhancements and Buckshaw Parkway terminators remain, as does the mess timings at Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme.

 

[Kieran1990]

1) Not in the current path the Southports won't be calling, otherwise they'd be in the way of the faster trains, hence the calls being moved to the Hulls in the first place. I can't see this working without a more radical rewrite, even if it's possible.
2) If RTT is to be believed, astonishingly given the shortage of rolling stock, platform 6 is occupied for nearly the full hour at peak times by the unit for the via Bradford service.

As posted Northern up on RTT post 10/12, the Southports from Leeds are back to calling at Batley.

 

[stu99]

At a quick glance - Preston to York through services are the only notable change. A few minor timing revisions and omitted stops adding to services e.g. adding Stockport to Stoke-Manchester services. No Sunday enhancements and Buckshaw Parkway terminators remain, as does the mess timings at Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme.

Yeah nothing much has changed around the North East either, which is all to be expected with the major change being postponed.