December 2020 Timetable Change

[Johnny Lewis]

And how do you know this?

 

[The Planner]

And how do you know this?

Train planning, hence we know. The May 21 bid from TOCs has now been pushed back too.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

I too work for a TOC. We have again been told this morning that Friday 16th October is the date when the trains will be downloaded into TRUST. A quick look at TRUST this morning for trains running on 21 December shows essentially nothing has yet appeared. So although NR have already made the offer, it won't be in the public domain for a few more days.

 

[The Planner]

I too work for a TOC. We have again been told this morning that Friday 16th October is the date when the trains will be downloaded into TRUST. A quick look at TRUST this morning for trains running on 21 December shows essentially nothing has yet appeared. So although NR have already made the offer, it won't be in the public domain for a few more days.

There won't be though, the offer was made to the TOCs on the 2nd, TOC offer response 9th, Publish 16th so its going to be during the week after until everything is up there.

 

[87015]

There won't be though, the offer was made to the TOCs on the 2nd, TOC offer response 9th, Publish 16th so its going to be during the week after until everything is up there.

Plenty of bits being STP'd from Day 1 too, so full picture won't be until thats published much later.

 

[Eloise]

I too work for a TOC. We have again been told this morning that Friday 16th October is the date when the trains will be downloaded into TRUST. A quick look at TRUST this morning for trains running on 21 December shows essentially nothing has yet appeared. So although NR have already made the offer, it won't be in the public domain for a few more days.

Nothing has deviated from agreed date. Publishinh was due to start on x date, it takes a week or so to get everything downstream. The schedule for publishing trains downstream was agreed today so not too much longer to wait. And will take around five working days.

 

[Cardiff123]

Surely there won't be any changes in December to what timetables are now? We all know Covid isn't going anywhere for the forseeable future, so surely Covid timetables currently in place will just stay in place until the Covid situation improves? It certainly won't have improved by December.

 

[Bald Rick]

Surely there won't be any changes in December to what timetables are now? We all know Covid isn't going anywhere for the forseeable future, so surely Covid timetables currently in place will just stay in place until the Covid situation improves? It certainly won't have improved by December.

Plenty of changes! Timetables change for all sorts of reasons.

 

[g22]

Train planning, hence we know. The May 21 bid from TOCs has now been pushed back too.

You did say recently that May 21 bids were due in 9th Oct I think. What is the date now?

 

[The Planner]

You did say recently that May 21 bids were due in 9th Oct I think. What is the date now?

23rd apparently, reduces the time to deal with it as the offer date isn't changing.

 

[Eloise]

12 week development period rather than 14 weeks. With Christmas / New Year near the end of it. Fun times.

 

[306024]

The ball is normally in the TOCs court at Christmas so it’s only fair

Some TOCs have tried to help out by bidding May 21 earlier, but that only helps where there are no conflicts and it is more of a data processing exercise than a timetable validation process.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Surely there won't be any changes in December to what timetables are now? We all know Covid isn't going anywhere for the forseeable future, so surely Covid timetables currently in place will just stay in place until the Covid situation improves? It certainly won't have improved by December.

A good illustration of the changes might be that TOC A has been managing its Covid plan until now through weekly STP amendments against the normal base timetable - a massive continuous undertaking. The December timetable change is a good opportunity to get much of that change into the underlying base plan, thereby immediately reducing the STP workload and the added benefit of properly linking the traincrew diagrams rather than relying on much goodwill and weekly amendment to keep the job going.

 

[Watershed]

A good illustration of the changes might be that TOC A has been managing its Covid plan until now through weekly STP amendments against the normal base timetable - a massive continuous undertaking. The December timetable change is a good opportunity to get much of that change into the underlying base plan, thereby immediately reducing the STP workload and the added benefit of properly linking the traincrew diagrams rather than relying on much goodwill and weekly amendment to keep the job going.

It also has the advantage that members of the public aren't going to be shown a timetable the TOC has no intention of running, in case they were to see the 'pre-Covid' LTP without STP amendments.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

It also has the advantage that members of the public aren't going to be shown a timetable the TOC has no intention of running, in case they were to see the 'pre-Covid' LTP without STP amendments.

On that point, it will be interesting to see what printed material (if any) TOCs produce for the December timetable change this year.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Surely there won't be any changes in December to what timetables are now? We all know Covid isn't going anywhere for the forseeable future, so surely Covid timetables currently in place will just stay in place until the Covid situation improves? It certainly won't have improved by December.

Quite the opposite. Very nearly full services will resume on almost every TOC.

 

[Bald Rick]

Quite the opposite. Very nearly full services will resume on almost every TOC.

No they won’t. Very few operators doing anything more than tinkering, as far as the passenger will see.

 

[The Planner]

Quite the opposite. Very nearly full services will resume on almost every TOC.

Not a chance.

 

[Jamesrob637]

XC are reinstating the Bristol (one Plymouth each way) to Manchester as well as most South Coast to North East. It may be a shock to see more booked single sets out, but 2tph Brum to Bristol, Manchester and Leeds once again will be welcomed. Plus the first and last have some HST workings.

TPE are reinstating all Scarboroughs, sadly not all using 68s though at least nothing will be booked 3-car. Think all Newcastles and at least some direct Glasgow to Manchester are returning.

On that basis I'd maybe say "nearly full" than "very nearly full."

However we need regular trains to give people flexibility and not crowd up reduced services which will not bode well for social distancing.

 

[The Planner]

XC are reinstating the Bristol (one Plymouth each way) to Manchester as well as most South Coast to North East. It may be a shock to see more booked single sets out, but 2tph Brum to Bristol, Manchester and Leeds once again will be welcomed. Plus the first and last have some HST workings.

Not what I have heard, that will be a quick turn around of their decision if so. There shouldn't be a lot of change from what there is now.

 

[Cardiff123]

However we need regular trains to give people flexibility and not crowd up reduced services which will not bode well for social distancing.

Maybe tune into the news a but more often, I doubt very much there will be any crowding of any kind on trains anywhere before next summer.

 

[iphone76]

TfL Rail (East) are really ramping up their off peak service to every 7-8 minutes, including weekends. (To Gidea Park on a Sunday).

 

[Greybeard33]

TPE are reinstating all Scarboroughs, sadly not all using 68s though at least nothing will be booked 3-car. Think all Newcastles and at least some direct Glasgow to Manchester are returning.

TfN has uploaded a paper Update on Operational Rail Issues in preparation for the Rail North Committee meeting on 21 October (see https://democracy.transportforthenorth.com/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=157&MId=1202&Ver=4, Agenda Item 6). This paper summarises the planned December changes to Northern and TPE services, in Appendices 1 and 2 respectively.

For TPE it says:

Appendix 2: TPE December 2020 service uplift

TPE’s plans for December 2020 include;

Anglo-Scottish routes – Edinburgh to Manchester Airport / Glasgow to Liverpool
Most services will operate from December apart from a number of services
predominately focused around early morning/late evening times of the day.

South routes – Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport
Services will continue to operate an hourly Cleethorpes – Manchester Piccadilly
service. All trains are planned to be six car formations throughout the operating
day. TPE will maintain the first and last services of the day running through to
Manchester Airport.

North routes - Scarborough to Liverpool, Redcar to Manchester Airport,
Edinburgh/Newcastle to Liverpool, Newcastle to Manchester Airport
TPE plan to increase services between Newcastle and York including additional
extensions to Edinburgh, as well as an additional journey each direction between
Redcar and York.

For Northern:

4.2 Northern’s plans for December 2020 will see additional services to the
current September timetable from 82% to 89% of full-service
provision. A summary of the changes can be found in Appendix 1 of
this report.

Appendix 1: Northern December 2020 service uplift

Corridor	September 2020 Service Level	Service Resumption in Dec 2020
Rose Hill -Piccadilly	6 services per day	Hourly service
Victoria—Warrington -Chester	Two hourly (Hourly Leeds —Vic with two hourly extension to Chester)	Hourly (provided by hourly Leeds - hourly extension to Chester)
Barrow -Manchester Airport	Through service focused on peak times	Increase from 6 to 11 through services
Windermere -Manchester Airport	Through service focused on peak times	Increase from 3 to 4 through services
Liverpool -Warrington -Airport	fast Peak only service	Increase from 3 to 10 services per day
Piccadilly -Chester via Altrincham	Hourly peak and two hourly off peak	Hourly all day
Piccadilly -Hadfield/Glossop	Half hourly service	Additional peak services resumed
Blackburn -Todmorden—Wigan	3 hourly service Blackburn— Todmorden—Victoria	Blackburn -Todmorden—Wigan hourly
Saltburn—Bishop Auckland	Hourly	Hourly with half hourly frequency Darlington -Saltburn
Sheffield—Gainsborough/Lincoln	Hourly Sheffield—Lincoln	Hourly service with Gainsborough - Sheffield peak services
Leeds—Carlisle	6 services per day	8 services per day

(Apologies for the formatting - the original table is an embedded image in the pdf file).

The paper also gives some details of the TPE and Northern May 2021 timetable plans:

5.2 As seen in timetable uplifts this year, there is a relationship between
increased levels of service and reduced network performance and
several operator plans for May 2021 have been identified as potential
risks to network performance including TPE. TPE had been working on
plans to return to a full service, with further service increases in line
with their franchise agreement. To maintain the current high levels of
performance it has been proposed to continue with the December 2020
level of service, with some minor amendments where necessary to
improve performance further and match passenger demand. The
System Operator (part of Network Rail) will work with TPE to identify
how the slots not proposed to be used might be retained to facilitate
driver training or reinstate services later in the timetable period should
circumstances require it.

5.3 Northern plan to re-instate further services from May 2021, building on
the December 2020 uplift from 89% to 92% of full-service provision.
However, several services will remain suspended due to predicted
levels of resource shortfalls. Details of the service uplifts and remaining
service suspensions have been shared with lead officers as part of the
North of England Contingency Group. Building on the experience of this
summer, this plan has been optimised in order to provide the capacity
and frequency for customers where it is needed most and a
reliable/punctual railway.

 

[hello]

XC are reinstating the Bristol (one Plymouth each way) to Manchester as well as most South Coast to North East. It may be a shock to see more booked single sets out, but 2tph Brum to Bristol, Manchester and Leeds once again will be welcomed. Plus the first and last have some HST workings.

TPE are reinstating all Scarboroughs, sadly not all using 68s though at least nothing will be booked 3-car. Think all Newcastles and at least some direct Glasgow to Manchester are returning.

On that basis I'd maybe say "nearly full" than "very nearly full."

However we need regular trains to give people flexibility and not crowd up reduced services which will not bode well for social distancing.

Doesn’t xc direct award officially end on Saturday with yet still an announcement to be made how it is run after that?

 

[Jamesrob637]

TfN has uploaded a paper Update on Operational Rail Issues in preparation for the Rail North Committee meeting on 21 October (see https://democracy.transportforthenorth.com/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=157&MId=1202&Ver=4, Agenda Item 6). This paper summarises the planned December changes to Northern and TPE services, in Appendices 1 and 2 respectively.

For TPE it says:

For Northern:


(Apologies for the formatting - the original table is an embedded image in the pdf file).

The paper also gives some details of the TPE and Northern May 2021 timetable plans:

So TPE are filling in the 10:XX and 13:XX gaps in the Cleethorpes service too. Great stuff.

 

[Eloise]

Certain TOCs are appearing this morning...

 

[Halish Railway]

Certain TOCs are appearing this morning...

Yup, a quick look at Leeds show that XC & EMR have uploaded their services.

 

[infobleep]

Yup, a quick look at Leeds show that XC & EMR have uploaded their services.

So have XC added all those extra services mentioned by @Jamesrob637?

 

[43055]

So have XC added all those extra services mentioned by @Jamesrob637?

A quick look suggests that it is largely the same timetable as today but it doesn't look to be fully loaded in yet. Some changes though are:
Cardiff to Nottingham is hourly all day throughout and one additional Banbury to Newcastle service and return to Derby.

 

[Peter0124]

According to Realtimetrains:
Avanti West Coast are basically back to normal now, with the exception of some London-Blackpool and the 17:33/18:33 London-Liverpool trains. Not everything is fully loaded in yet though but those Blackpool/Liverpool trains look like they won't be running come December.
07:01 Manchester to London no longer seems to run anymore come December. Probably due to the COVID-19 effect on morning business travel.

London-Glasgow is back to normal departing at xx.30. Alongside the odd hours xx.43 London-Glasgow via West Midlands services being fully back alongside the reinstatement of even hours xx.43 London-Edinburgh last september.

Motherwell now seems to be a much better calling point for Avanti services on the London-Glasgow route.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Motherwell between 0200 and 0159 on 16/12/2020

Train information at Motherwell between 0200 and 0159 on 16/12/2020. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

There are approximately 40% of services calling at Motherwell now which normally (pre and during the COVID based timetables) wouldn't call.
Some of these Glasgow-London services have had their departure times altered slightly in order to call at Motherwell. Instead of the typical xx.40 Glasgow-London via Trent Valley and even hours xx.00 Glasgow-London via West Midlands, some depart at xx.33, xx.37, xx.57 etc which seems to have lost its sense of a consistent departure time.

London-Chester is back to hourly and also keeps the same Holyhead extensions pre-covid. I reckon the pendolinos freed up from cutting some Blackpool/Liverpool trains and that 07:01 from Manchester have allowed the xx.43 to be extended back to Glasgow. 11:43 London to Glasgow runs as a Pendolino instead of a Voyager. That voyager will be free to be used onto the London-Chester shuttles, presumably helping to allow more 10 car operations.