December 2020 Timetable Change

[The Planner]

According to Realtimetrains:
Avanti West Coast are basically back to normal now, with the exception of some London-Blackpool and the 17:33/18:33 London-Liverpool trains. Not everything is fully loaded in yet though but those Blackpool/Liverpool trains look like they won't be running come December.
07:01 Manchester to London no longer seems to run anymore come December. Probably due to the COVID-19 effect on morning business travel.

That won't be the only peak train missing.

 

[Peter0124]

That won't be the only peak train missing.

What are the others, Do you know if the 05:00 from Wolves to London is running? Its empty stock move is in RTT but not its service.

 

[TheDavibob]

A quick look suggests that it is largely the same timetable as today but it doesn't look to be fully loaded in yet. Some changes though are:
Cardiff to Nottingham is hourly all day throughout and one additional Banbury to Newcastle service and return to Derby.

They've also plugged a couple of gaps in the Birmingham-Stansted route with a couple of shuttles Cambridge <-> Peterborough.

 

[The Planner]

What are the others, Do you know if the 05:00 from Wolves to London is running? Its empty stock move is in RTT but not its service.

That is yes, with an extra stop at MK I think. The New St Euston flyer is gone, as is the International starter, amalgamated into one service. The fast Manchester Euston is gone too I believe. The evening extras to Liverpool and the extras on Friday out of Euston go too.

 

[Jamesrob637]

That is yes, with an extra stop at MK I think. The New St Euston flyer is gone, as is the International starter, amalgamated into one service. The fast Manchester Euston is gone too I believe. The evening extras to Liverpool and the extras on Friday out of Euston go too.

Avanti are leading the way it seems. However those peak extras could have been used as a way of getting cheaply to London for a family day out if restrictions ease a little in the New Year. Try to find a cheap Advance Single on the 07:00 Manchester to London at present!

 

[The Planner]

Avanti are leading the way it seems. However those peak extras could have been used as a way of getting cheaply to London for a family day out if restrictions ease a little in the New Year. Try to find a cheap Advance Single on the 07:00 Manchester to London at present!

Nothing stopping them putting them back if something changes though the leisure market won't be the thing that does it. The paths don't disappear.

 

[Eloise]

Nothing stopping them putting them back if something changes though the leisure market won't be the thing that does it. The paths don't disappear.

Have they caped them STP or has the LTP path been removed?

 

[The Planner]

Have they caped them STP or has the LTP path been removed?

No idea, but I very much doubt Avanti would want the path removed as until recently I suspect they would want them back in May 21.

 

[387star]

Looks like GWR Afternoon weekday Brightons resume along with most or all of the Sunday services can anyone confirm ?

 

[PHILIPE]

Looks like GWR Afternoon weekday Brightons resume along with most or all of the Sunday services can anyone confirm ?

That is the full base Timetable but there could be STP alterations reducing services nearer the time

 

[tarq]

I’m getting an error every time I look up journeys from London Terminals to Gatwick on 30/12. Is this because the Dec 2020 timetable hasn’t been fully loaded?

 

[30907]

I’m getting an error every time I look up journeys from London Terminals to Gatwick on 30/12. Is this because the Dec 2020 timetable hasn’t been fully loaded?

Christmas period will have an amended timetable?

 

[Mainline421]

Not what I have heard, that will be a quick turn around of their decision if so. There shouldn't be a lot of change from what there is now.

CrossCountry timetables now appeared on RTT and sadly you are correct. Still no trains at all from the south coast to the north east and only 2 hourly to Manchester. Only these are now WTT schedules! Will the normal timetable ever return? These are intercity/regional services so shouldn't rely solely on commuters, and the current service level is less than half of that during lockdown!

 

[306024]

TfL Rail (East) are really ramping up their off peak service to every 7-8 minutes, including weekends. (To Gidea Park on a Sunday).

All uploaded in the systems now. The Liverpool St - Shenfield route is comparatively busy, even in Covid times, so this frequency increase will help social distancing despite London and Essex now being in tier 2.

The extra Gidea Park services on a Sunday start around midday, as Westfield at Stratford tends to open 12.00 - 18.00 which obviously generates much additional traffic.

 

[Eloise]

I’m getting an error every time I look up journeys from London Terminals to Gatwick on 30/12. Is this because the Dec 2020 timetable hasn’t been fully loaded?

TOCs are drip fed downstream over a week or so. GTR may not be down yet.

Christmas period will have an amended timetable?

Have to put the full WTT downstream first. STP will follow.

 

[306024]

Maybe tune into the news a but more often, I doubt very much there will be any crowding of any kind on trains anywhere before next summer.

Maybe not where you are, but that’s not necessarily true everywhere. As said above Great Eastern Metro service off peak between Liverpool St and Shenfield is increasing from every 10 Minutes to every 7/8 minutes.

 

[Thomas6187]

There is are some minor retiming to the TfW Chester-Manchester, probably to accommodate Northern as yet unreleased plans. This has resulted in more through services to Manchester Airport. The 06:52, 07:52 08:52, 09:52, 16:52, 17:52, 18:52, Piccadilly departures, all starting back at Manchester Airport. There is an extra Chester-Manchester Airport at 04:46 calling at Piccadilly(05:53) and the Airport only(06:19). This is routed via Altrincham. The last service to Chester is now at 23:51, vice 23:14

 

[Bald Rick]

There is are some minor retiming to the TfW Chester-Manchester, probably to accommodate Northern as yet unreleased plans. This has resulted in more through services to Manchester Airport. The 06:52, 07:52 08:52, 09:52, 16:52, 17:52, 18:52, Piccadilly departures, all starting back at Manchester Airport. There is an extra Chester-Manchester Airport at 04:46 calling at Piccadilly(05:53) and the Airport only(06:19). This is routed via Altrincham. The last service to Chester is now at 23:51, vice 23:14

That’s part of the Castlefield corridor performance improvement.

 

[peters]

There is an extra Chester-Manchester Airport at 04:46 calling at Piccadilly(05:53) and the Airport only(06:19). This is routed via Altrincham.

While it's not TfW's responsibility to serve stations on the Altrincham line it's a shame they aren't making a few limited stops on that service i.e. Northwich, Knutsford, Altrincham & Stockport, as under normal circumstances that would provide good connections for those making long distance journeys such as those trying to get to London before 9am which requires 'railheading' to Crewe currently. Additionally good airport connections first thing in the morning aren't something currently available for most places, despite a lot of flights leaving pre-10am.

 

[Eloise]

It's not that easy just to insert a call in something that doesn't normally call. Contracts aside, and this would need updating, you have to risk assess it for passenger train interface, stopping marks, dispatch procedures and all sorts of other things I guess.

 

[peters]

It's not that easy just to insert a call in something that doesn't normally call. Contracts aside, and this would need updating, you have to risk assess it for passenger train interface, stopping marks, dispatch procedures and all sorts of other things I guess.

Stockport should be easy to add in as TfW already stop their Manchester to South Wales services there. Knutsford and Altrincham should be fine as long as they don't try to use 6 carriage trains, in which case it would be a tight fit or possibly have the ends off the platform. Also the Coradia trains did call at Knutsford and Altrincham when they were first introduced! Northwich may be an issue because of the hump that's been added to the platform, which has been added since the Coradia trains stopped there

 

[PHILIPE]

It's not that easy just to insert a call in something that doesn't normally call. Contracts aside, and this would need updating, you have to risk assess it for passenger train interface, stopping marks, dispatch procedures and all sorts of other things I guess.

Access rights.

 

[theironroad]

Looks like the SWR ones are in.

A more normal service west of Southampton seem to have been restored for first time since march, though Poole to Waterloo stoppers now start and finish at Winchester.

 

[sd0733]

It's not that easy just to insert a call in something that doesn't normally call. Contracts aside, and this would need updating, you have to risk assess it for passenger train interface, stopping marks, dispatch procedures and all sorts of other things I guess.

It also means that during engineering work with Manchester being the first stop it can run via Warrington or via Crewe with no need to provide replacements. The 0334 from Chester is also.shown as booked via Altrincham non stop to.Piccadilly.

 

[swt_passenger]

Looks like the SWR ones are in.

A more normal service west of Southampton seem to have been restored for first time since march, though Poole to Waterloo stoppers now start and finish at Winchester.

I wonder if that’s aimed at providing more capacity west of Winchester because XC aren’t running their full service?

 

[Jamesrob637]

I wonder if that’s aimed at providing more capacity west of Winchester because XC aren’t running their full service?

XC only have one train per hour west of Southampton even under normal circumstances and said train is running as normal.

 

[swt_passenger]

XC only have one train per hour west of Southampton even under normal circumstances and said train is running as normal.

Yes, but they aren’t all calling at Winchester are they:

Realtime Trains | Departures from Winchester all day on 17/12/2020

Train information at Winchester all day on 17/12/2020. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

...and Brockenhurst is still being skipped by XC all day - at least according to RTT.

 

[Mainline421]

XC only have one train per hour west of Southampton even under normal circumstances and said train is running as normal.

Only half of them are running making it two-hourly

 

[Llandudno]

There is are some minor retiming to the TfW Chester-Manchester, probably to accommodate Northern as yet unreleased plans. This has resulted in more through services to Manchester Airport. The 06:52, 07:52 08:52, 09:52, 16:52, 17:52, 18:52, Piccadilly departures, all starting back at Manchester Airport. There is an extra Chester-Manchester Airport at 04:46 calling at Piccadilly(05:53) and the Airport only(06:19). This is routed via Altrincham. The last service to Chester is now at 23:51, vice 23:14

Crikey there will be a huge gap in service from Manchester to Chester via Warrington BQ from 2212 until 2351. This will mean a lot of hanging around Manchester after theatre, concert and football matches etc.
Plenty of pubs and bars to frequent, but not great midweek if you have work or school the following day.

The other issue is that passengers for stations west of Chester will not be able to connect onto the last NW Coast train which departs Chester at 0040, as the 2351 arrives in Chester at 0056.

Unless, of course another train is yet to be added to the timetable departing Manchester sometime between 2212 and 2351, does anyone know if this likely?
The 2212 train seems a strange one as it is only 22 minutes after the previous one at 2150!

Otherwise you can endure 90+ minutes on the all shacks 2241 Northern train via Northwich I suppose!

 

[Starmill]

Quite a lot of the data now showing on opentraintimes.com

As I and a number of others have predicted, it's a strong suggestion that most of the cuts that were made in March are not, if they aren't already, going to be reversed in December.