December 2021 Timetable change

[swt_passenger]

Lumo are only expected to run 5x times per day so surely TPE could extend to Edinburgh when Lumo is not running?

It’s been suggested earlier that the paths don’t link up across Newcastle.

 

[dk1]

Lumo are only expected to run 5x times per day so surely TPE could extend to Edinburgh when Lumo is not running?

Depends whether it fits in with what Transport Scotland want if they are supporting it.

 

[FGWHST43009]

The only flow where a change is now required is Huddersfield to Edinburgh. Or the even smaller flows from Leeds to Morpeth, Huddersfield to Berwick etc.


That's true. However, Northern has an almost clockface hourly service between Morpeth and Newcastle, and the new Newcastle-Edinburgh service provides greater local connectivity.


Unfortunately it's difficult to justify running trains purely on the basis of one small flow.


...then Morpeth would suffer an even worse service than it currently gets?

Having a standalone service means much better reliability than a 5 hour long through service.


It was initially temporary because of Covid. There was the opportunity to bring it back in May, but that's not happening because things have ... changed.


Yes, pretty much, but no-one in the government is really being straight that this is what is happening.

I think it's more for the benefit of passengers at stations like Huddersfield, Leeds as well as Durham etc, as the TPE service between Manc Air and Newcastle isn't running the ones losing out here are those at the intermediate stations. In effect, the ECML 2022 timetable change has already happened, just LNER haven't introduced their extra services they proposed. Again, trains in the north are being pushed out of the way for more London services.

 

[infobleep]

I think it's more for the benefit of passengers at stations like Huddersfield, Leeds as well as Durham etc, as the TPE service between Manc Air and Newcastle isn't running the ones losing out here are those at the intermediate stations. In effect, the ECML 2022 timetable change has already happened, just LNER haven't introduced their extra services they proposed. Again, trains in the north are being pushed out of the way for more London services.

Is that considered levelling down? Given the trains go down to London?

 

[swt_passenger]

The words from the LNER consultation (no longer online so cannot link to it) were:

“Newcastle will see one fewer direct service per hour to and from the northwest, with TransPennine Express's frequency reducing from two to one service per hour. This is a result of limited track capacity between Northallerton and Newcastle. Increasing from two to three LNER services and reducing from two TransPennine Express services to one better corresponds with passenger demand. The TransPennine Express services to Manchester and the north-west will start and terminate at York instead, where regular interchanges can be made in-between the direct hourlv Newcastle to Manchester/Liveroool services…”

My bolding. People may disagree, but that seems to be the LNER and presumably DfT view. Perhaps they have the statistics to prove it.

 

[Watershed]

The words from the LNER consultation (no longer online so cannot link to it) were:

“Newcastle will see one fewer direct service per hour to and from the northwest, with TransPennine Express's frequency reducing from two to one service per hour. This is a result of limited track capacity between Northallerton and Newcastle. Increasing from two to three LNER services and reducing from two TransPennine Express services to one better corresponds with passenger demand. The TransPennine Express services to Manchester and the north-west will start and terminate at York instead, where regular interchanges can be made in-between the direct hourlv Newcastle to Manchester/Liveroool services…”

My bolding. People may disagree, but that seems to be the LNER and presumably DfT view. Perhaps they have the statistics to prove it.

Indeed, but the mere fact that it says "Newcastle to Manchester/Liverpool services" shows that it's simply an afterthought.

Where pre-Covid, the service pattern was (at least in theory) 1tph Liverpool-Edinburgh and 1tph Manchester Airport-Newcastle, the end result will now be 1tph Liverpool-York, 1tph Manchester Victoria-Newcastle and 5tpd Newcastle-Edinburgh. That is an utterly woeful downgrade in connectivity, and it appears to me that it's more than robbing Peter to pay Paul, it's burning Peter's house to the ground.

 

[swt_passenger]

Indeed, but the mere fact that it says "Newcastle to Manchester/Liverpool services" shows that it's simply an afterthought.

Or maybe at the time of writing they didn’t know the destination of the hourly service from Newcastle so left it either, whichever destination they eventually decide, you change for the other.

 

[FGWHST43009]

Indeed, but the mere fact that it says "Newcastle to Manchester/Liverpool services" shows that it's simply an afterthought.

Where pre-Covid, the service pattern was (at least in theory) 1tph Liverpool-Edinburgh and 1tph Manchester Airport-Newcastle, the end result will now be 1tph Liverpool-York, 1tph Manchester Victoria-Newcastle and 5tpd Newcastle-Edinburgh. That is an utterly woeful downgrade in connectivity, and it appears to me that it's more than robbing Peter to pay Paul, it's burning Peter's house to the ground.

I think it would be Liverpool-Newcastle and Manchester Victoria-York. But you're right, the north is getting a broken system in favour of London services.

 

[Peterthegreat]

I think it would be Liverpool-Newcastle and Manchester Victoria-York. But you're right, the north is getting a broken system in favour of London services.

The north is getting a broken system full stop.

 

[Watershed]

I think it would be Liverpool-Newcastle and Manchester Victoria-York. But you're right, the north is getting a broken system in favour of London services.

I'm afraid that's overoptimistic. The way the paths work out is that there will be two overlapping but disjointed services, meaning that even a journey from Newcastle or Durham to Liverpool will require a change.

 

[philosopher]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but what Chiltern Trains services are loco hauled in the December 2021 timetable? Was disappointed to find that 11:10 Marylebone to Birmingham Moor Street this morning was a 4 car class 168 whereas pre pandemic it was definitely loco hauled.

The Chiltern Trains timetable available online no longer seems to show what services are loco hauled.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but what Chiltern Trains services are loco hauled in the December 2021 timetable? Was disappointed to find that 11:10 Marylebone to Birmingham Moor Street this morning was a 4 car class 168 whereas pre pandemic it was definitely loco hauled.

The Chiltern Trains timetable available online no longer seems to show what services are loco hauled.

A mate of mine was just on the 18:18 Marylebone to Oxford which he says is loco-hauled.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but what Chiltern Trains services are loco hauled in the December 2021 timetable? Was disappointed to find that 11:10 Marylebone to Birmingham Moor Street this morning was a 4 car class 168 whereas pre pandemic it was definitely loco hauled.

The Chiltern Trains timetable available online no longer seems to show what services are loco hauled.

Monday to Friday:

1H17 0641 SBJ - MYB
1H22 0716 SBJ - MYB
1H12 0739 PRR - MYB
1R21 1010 MYB - BMO
1R29 1210 MYB - BMO
1H45 1255 BMO - MYB
1H53 1455 BMO - MYB
1K50 1714 MYB - KID
1K54 1815 MYB - KID
1T54 1818 MYB - OXF
1Y76 2000 OXF - MYB

Saturday:

1H11 0637 KID - MYB
1H13 0712 KID - MYB
1R24 1100 MYB - BMO
1R32 1300 MYB - BMO
1H37 1337 BMO - MYB
1H45 1537 BMO - MYB
1K48 1700 MYB - KID
1K58 1937 MYB - KID

Sunday:

1H25 1000 KID - MYB
1H27 1030 KID -MYB
1R32 1300 MYB - BMO
1H45 1537 BMO - MYB
1K48 1700 MYB - KID
1K58 1937 MYB - KID

 

[Bald Rick]

People may disagree, but that seems to be the LNER and presumably DfT view. Perhaps they have the statistics to prove it.

Indeed. Word on the street is that the response to the consultation was in favour of more London services over services to the North West, but the Northern politicians didn’t like it...

 

[philosopher]

Monday to Friday:

1H17 0641 SBJ - MYB
1H22 0716 SBJ - MYB
1H12 0739 PRR - MYB
1R21 1010 MYB - BMO
1R29 1210 MYB - BMO
1H45 1255 BMO - MYB
1H53 1455 BMO - MYB
1K50 1714 MYB - KID
1K54 1815 MYB - KID
1T54 1818 MYB - OXF
1Y76 2000 OXF - MYB

Saturday:

1H11 0637 KID - MYB
1H13 0712 KID - MYB
1R24 1100 MYB - BMO
1R32 1300 MYB - BMO
1H37 1337 BMO - MYB
1H45 1537 BMO - MYB
1K48 1700 MYB - KID
1K58 1937 MYB - KID

Sunday:

1H25 1000 KID - MYB
1H27 1030 KID -MYB
1R32 1300 MYB - BMO
1H45 1537 BMO - MYB
1K48 1700 MYB - KID
1K58 1937 MYB - KID

Thanks. I did notice the 12:55 from Moor Street being loco hauled.

 

[william]

The words from the LNER consultation (no longer online so cannot link to it) were:

“Newcastle will see one fewer direct service per hour to and from the northwest, with TransPennine Express's frequency reducing from two to one service per hour. This is a result of limited track capacity between Northallerton and Newcastle. Increasing from two to three LNER services and reducing from two TransPennine Express services to one better corresponds with passenger demand. The TransPennine Express services to Manchester and the north-west will start and terminate at York instead, where regular interchanges can be made in-between the direct hourlv Newcastle to Manchester/Liveroool services…”

My bolding. People may disagree, but that seems to be the LNER and presumably DfT view. Perhaps they have the statistics to prove it.

Free's up a path for a Teesside/NE coast service. I'm the eternal optimist. Or LNER responding to the challenge....?

 

[infobleep]

Indeed. Word on the street is that the response to the consultation was in favour of more London services over services to the North West, but the Northern politicians didn’t like it...

Couldn't they have rigged the consultation to favour the MPs wishes. Not that I'm cynical or anything.