December 2021 Timetable change

[dk1]

Ahh no bother I just assumed because of your profile picture

Ah yes one of my favourite photos. Taken years ago but actually VXC at Dawlish

 

[Bald Rick]

Just been told our rosters for next week are being delayed (should be posted this afternoon) as due to the current Covid situation services are being reduced from Monday. Not looking like a very merry Christmas except for those traincrew who might get their leave granted rather than declined now depending on how severe the reductions are.

can’t see leave being granted, any reductions are due to the level of traincrew absence, which is rising rapidly.

 

[dk1]

can’t see leave being granted, any reductions are due to the level of traincrew absence, which is rising rapidly.

Might be a slight chance if services are reduced although that & traincrew availability makes very little difference when it comes to diagrams on the whole. Will be an interesting fortnight or so.

 

[Sleepy]

Just been told our rosters for next week are being delayed (should be posted this afternoon) as due to the current Covid situation services are being reduced from Monday. Not looking like a very merry Christmas except for those traincrew who might get their leave granted rather than declined now depending on how severe the reductions are.

0800 & 1232 Norwich to London Liverpool St. / 1000 & 1500 return workings are being cut together with various other GA rural & suburban services from Monday apparently .

 

[Bald Rick]

Will be an interesting fortnight or so.

it will be longer than that if the forecasts are right.

 

[Bungle965]

Seems like a double voyager made a rare appearance at Liverpool today, unsure why

Realtime Trains | 1F15 1107 London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street | 15/12/2021

Real-time train running information for 1F15 1107 departure from London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street on 15/12/2021. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

To do with the train crew issues Avanti have been having, no driver being available to do runs to/from Wembley.

 

[dk1]

0800 & 1232 Norwich to London Liverpool St. / 1000 & 1500 return workings are being cut together with various other GA rural & suburban services from Monday apparently .

Well that leaves me with nothing to drive at all on Monday then.

 

[Sleepy]

Just been told our rosters for next week are being delayed (should be posted this afternoon) as due to the current Covid situation services are being reduced from Monday. Not looking like a very merry Christmas except for those traincrew who might get their leave granted rather than declined now depending on how severe the reductions are.

Nothing about this on GA website, perhaps Boris told Grant/Dft to wait until lockdown to reduce service ?!?

 

[dk1]

Nothing about this on GA website, perhaps Boris told Grant/Dft to wait until lockdown to reduce service ?!?

Yes not seen or heard anymore since the internal email on Friday. How strange.

 

[Starmill]

Nothing about this on GA website, perhaps Boris told Grant/Dft to wait until lockdown to reduce service ?!?

I sense panic!

 

[Alfie1014]

Details now been posted, more extensive on the GE side than anticipated including some last trains withdrawn including 22:56 Colchester to Walton and 23:05 Clacton to Colchester.

Check before your travel as Greater Anglia timetable changes from Monday

Greater Anglia is making a temporary reduction to its timetable in response to falling passenger numbers and to ensure the company can continue to provide a reliable service throughout the latest phase of the pandemic. Some services are being removed from the weekday timetable from Monday 20...

www.greateranglia.co.uk

 

[dk1]

Details now been posted, more extensive on the GE side than anticipated including some last trains withdrawn including 22:56 Colchester to Walton and 23:05 Clacton to Colchester.

Check before your travel as Greater Anglia timetable changes from Monday

Greater Anglia is making a temporary reduction to its timetable in response to falling passenger numbers and to ensure the company can continue to provide a reliable service throughout the latest phase of the pandemic. Some services are being removed from the weekday timetable from Monday 20...

www.greateranglia.co.uk

Thanks. I should’ve been booked to work two of those trains so something had to be seriously amiss for me to be moved to another diagram without my permission.

 

[evergreenadam]

Details now been posted, more extensive on the GE side than anticipated including some last trains withdrawn including 22:56 Colchester to Walton and 23:05 Clacton to Colchester.

Check before your travel as Greater Anglia timetable changes from Monday

Greater Anglia is making a temporary reduction to its timetable in response to falling passenger numbers and to ensure the company can continue to provide a reliable service throughout the latest phase of the pandemic. Some services are being removed from the weekday timetable from Monday 20...

www.greateranglia.co.uk

Really hammers Clacton and Walton on Naze.

 

[dk1]

Chopping the 15:36 Yarmoith makes no sense. It's only part of the drivers diagram, the guard will sit spare & the unit may need to be moved out & in again forvits next working. I'd understand a little more if it was the 17:06 or 18:04 when the service was half-hourly but this leaves a 2 hour gap.

 

[O L Leigh]

Chopping the 15:36 Yarmoith makes no sense. It's only part of the drivers diagram, the guard will sit spare & the unit may need to be moved out & in again forvits next working. I'd understand a little more if it was the 17:06 or 18:04 when the service was half-hourly but this leaves a 2 hour gap.

Mate, it would be a mistake to look for sense in these cancellations. Train planners will just go at the timetable with an axe and blame "traincrew availability". On the plus side, you might even see some spare turns returning.

 

[dk1]

Mate, it would be a mistake to look for sense in these cancellations. Train planners will just go at the timetable with an axe and blame "traincrew availability". On the plus side, you might even see some spare turns returning.

I'd love to see control & the DTM reinstate it tomorrow with the spare train & crew

 

[Starmill]

Train planners will just go at the timetable with an axe and blame "traincrew availability". On the plus side, you might even see some spare turns returning.

Is that really true? It seems like it could be doing them a disservice. After all there's been next to no time to come up with a revised plan.

 

[306024]

Is that really true? It seems like it could be doing them a disservice. After all there's been next to no time to come up with a revised plan.

Indeed. Train planners absolutely hate having to implement short notice changes such as this. They are under pressure to prevent them having to be dealt with by Control arrangements, yet have a deadline to get the information to NR for all the publishing work they have to do. It will never be anything better than a bodge job. And then 48 hours later the position changes and some trains may get re-instated

This does look to have been roster led based on known crew availability. Train planners would never cancel the last trains of the day unless directed from above.

 

[87015]

Indeed. Train planners absolutely hate having to implement short notice changes such as this. They are under pressure to prevent them having to be dealt with by Control arrangements, yet have a deadline to get the information to NR for all the publishing work they have to do. It will never be anything better than a bodge job. And then 48 hours later the position changes and some trains may get re-instated

This does look to have been roster led based on known crew availability. Train planners would never cancel the last trains of the day unless directed from above.

It is being done under control measures, perhaps O L Leigh will direct his knowledge there

 

[Techniquest]

It is being done under control measures, perhaps O L Leigh will direct his knowledge there

What are control measures? I have an image of a group of people wearing Madonna mics all frantically trying to organise something

 

[Watershed]

What are control measures? I have an image of a group of people wearing Madonna mics all frantically trying to organise something

Something undertaken by Control - i.e. the people who are on shift 24/7 managing the operation. As opposed to something undertaken by Planning - i.e. the people who sit around and drink tea

 

[O L Leigh]

Is that really true? It seems like it could be doing them a disservice. After all there's been next to no time to come up with a revised plan.

It is being done under control measures, perhaps O L Leigh will direct his knowledge there

Well, wherever it originates the outcome is still the same.

We're going through the same issues with our own service where I work. It's all been STP diagrams (hence shining the spotlight on train planning) and potentially quite big gaps in the service. There has been a fair number of drivers taken off their booked turns to cover other work when booking-on, but it hasn't been the same situation where Control have been fire-fighting as they often have to do when there has been widespread disruption on the day. A plan has been formulated and implemented to ensure that at least some of the service can be run.

 

[Techniquest]

Something undertaken by Control - i.e. the people who are on shift 24/7 managing the operation. As opposed to something undertaken by Planning - i.e. the people who sit around and drink tea

That makes sense, I was trying to understand something at 1-something-am, that wasn't likely to work

 

[FGWHST43009]

TPE Dec 2021
I notice there is a 1F52 0534 SX Scarborough to Liverpool Lime Street arrive 08.35 in P1 with no further work and timed as LH

And the 1P19 0854 SX Liverpool Lime Street to Newcastle has no inward working and timed as an 802

I wonder if the 1F52 would be a 802 from Scarborough?

Peter

Quite annoying that the Liverpool-Edinburgh service is cut back to Newcastle now... could've been a good service to be honest, would've provided 2tph Leeds-Edinburgh. I think the TPE 802s are based at Craigentinny, so why not operate them from Edinburgh and have the new Newcastle-Edinburgh service be an extension of the current Liverpool-Newcastle service? Does not make sense to operate two split trains instead of one direct train.

 

[adrock1976]

Quite annoying that the Liverpool-Edinburgh service is cut back to Newcastle now... could've been a good service to be honest, would've provided 2tph Leeds-Edinburgh. I think the TPE 802s are based at Craigentinny, so why not operate them from Edinburgh and have the new Newcastle-Edinburgh service be an extension of the current Liverpool-Newcastle service? Does not make sense to operate two split trains instead of one direct train.

Liverpool - Edinburgh via Manchester, Huddersfield, and York is not the shortest route, which is via Preston and Carlisle.

I can see that if Liverpool - Edinburgh via York ran as a direct train and not split into two sections and there was serious delays, it would be terminated short at Newcastle or York.

 

[FGWHST43009]

Liverpool - Edinburgh via Manchester, Huddersfield, and York is not the shortest route, which is via Preston and Carlisle.

I can see that if Liverpool - Edinburgh via York ran as a direct train and not split into two sections and there was serious delays, it would be terminated short at Newcastle or York.

It's more the fact that the service from Liverpool to Edinburgh is in effect being split into two trains requiring passengers to change if they're coming from Leeds or Huddersfield. Also it reduces frequency of trains calling at Morpeth, because 1tph TPE train used to call each way, and LNER and Lumo as well as Northern have infrequent stopping patterns. Morpeth gets fewer direct trains to Edinburgh as a result, which makes more sense than going south to Newcastle then changing, as Newcastle is a much bigger and more complex station than Morpeth.

Liverpool - Edinburgh via Manchester, Huddersfield, and York is not the shortest route, which is via Preston and Carlisle.

I can see that if Liverpool - Edinburgh via York ran as a direct train and not split into two sections and there was serious delays, it would be terminated short at Newcastle or York.

Maybe if there are delays it could be terminated at Newcastle. Or is it just a temporary change because of Covid? Or are the trains from the North being pushed out of the way for more London services?

 

[swt_passenger]

Maybe if there are delays it could be terminated at Newcastle. Or is it just a temporary change because of Covid? Or are the trains from the North being pushed out of the way for more London services?

Well basically the latter. The TPE second Newcastle and Edinburgh extensions didn’t have firm rights and NR couldn’t fit them in with the agreed LNER, XC and LUMO services that all did have firm rights. The LNER consultation earlier this year explicitly said there was far more passenger demand from Newcastle for the London route. Also there‘s space needed for the LNER 0.5 tph Middlesbrough service.

So it all added up to TPE having to revert to one tph York to Newcastle.

 

[Watershed]

It's more the fact that the service from Liverpool to Edinburgh is in effect being split into two trains requiring passengers to change if they're coming from Leeds or Huddersfield

The only flow where a change is now required is Huddersfield to Edinburgh. Or the even smaller flows from Leeds to Morpeth, Huddersfield to Berwick etc.

Also it reduces frequency of trains calling at Morpeth, because 1tph TPE train used to call each way, and LNER and Lumo as well as Northern have infrequent stopping patterns.

That's true. However, Northern has an almost clockface hourly service between Morpeth and Newcastle, and the new Newcastle-Edinburgh service provides greater local connectivity.

Morpeth gets fewer direct trains to Edinburgh as a result, which makes more sense than going south to Newcastle then changing, as Newcastle is a much bigger and more complex station than Morpeth.

Unfortunately it's difficult to justify running trains purely on the basis of one small flow.

Maybe if there are delays it could be terminated at Newcastle.

...then Morpeth would suffer an even worse service than it currently gets?

Having a standalone service means much better reliability than a 5 hour long through service.

Or is it just a temporary change because of Covid?

It was initially temporary because of Covid. There was the opportunity to bring it back in May, but that's not happening because things have ... changed.

Or are the trains from the North being pushed out of the way for more London services?

Yes, pretty much, but no-one in the government is really being straight that this is what is happening.

 

[FGWHST43009]

Well basically the latter. The TPE second Newcastle and Edinburgh extensions didn’t have firm rights and NR couldn’t fit them in with the agreed LNER, XC and LUMO services that all did have firm rights. The LNER consultation earlier this year explicitly said ther3 was far more passenger demand from Newcastle for the London route. Also there‘s space needed for the LNER 0.5 tph Middlesbrough service.

So it all added up to TPE having to revert to one tph York to Newcastle.

Lumo are only expected to run 5x times per day so surely TPE could extend to Edinburgh when Lumo is not running?

 

[Watershed]

Lumo are only expected to run 5x times per day so surely TPE could extend to Edinburgh when Lumo is not running?

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Lumo aren't running in the same path each time.