December 2021 Timetable change

[yorksrob]

The improvements for the Severn Beach line, the Harrogate line and the Ebbw Valley line really are very significant bright spots among the gloom. Historic improvements, years in the making. Let's just hope that people use them and don't lose them.

The Harrogate - York section is generally pretty well used. I don't think the passengers will disappoint.

 

[najaB]

Thre is a difference between portable as in "operating-system agnostic", and portable as in "designed for portable devices".

I know that. Which is exactly what's needed when you want to be able to display a document on Windows, Android and iOS.

 

[tornado]

@jon0844, a PDF app is not built into Android phones. The viewers on my phone were all downloaded post-purchase. So how does the non-techie person open it?

Also, how do people get the PDFs on their phone in the first place. They have to set up a phone email app. More technical know-how needed.

With the Avanti App (google pay + google wallet) I can select/purchase/store tickets all without leaving my phone.

I have personally used pdf tickets, pkpass, and google wallet format tickets numerous times, and the last of the three is by far the smoothest experience.

 

[Bletchleyite]

@jon0844, a PDF app is not built into Android phones. The viewers on my phone were all downloaded post-purchase. So how does the non-techie person open it?

The web browser does it natively. Most people improve on that by installing Acrobat, but you do not have to. That said, anyone who is competent enough to use an online sales site can install an app.

Also, how do people get the PDFs on their phone in the first place. They have to set up a phone email app. More technical know-how needed.

When you start using any Android or iOS mobile device it takes you through adding your email to it. Why would anyone not do?

 

[tornado]

Chrome on Android does not open pdfs natively as it doesn't have a plugin architecture.

Why would you do it, when an email-free ticketing option exists.

 

[infobleep]

I see the Guildford to Waterloo via Epsom services is now departing at x45 rather than x42. Before covid when they use to depart at x08 and '28, they were never retimed back for the leaf fall period. I assumed leaves weren't an issue for them and only become an issue between Effingham Junction and Hinchley Wood.

I wonder if the trains kept to better time during the last fall period compared to previously.

The trains via Cobham are now permanently retimed to be always 3 minutes earlier regardless of the leaf fall or not. Perhaps there are enough other issues all year round to justify it. 3 minutes is 15% of 20 minutes to compare it to schemes where the government say you will have a 20 minute shorter journey time.

 

[alansheppard77]

Today TPE started a new improved timetable but many trains cancelled because no drivers,why not run a service they can actually run

 

[DoubleO]

The two are effectively separate issues. Rest day working has been withdrawn which has led to the cancellations, had RDW been available there would almost certainly have been no (or minimal) issues.

 

[Starmill]

The two are effectively separate issues. Rest day working has been withdrawn which has led to the cancellations, had RDW been available there would almost certainly have been no (or minimal) issues.

To be fair, most laypeople won't be able to fully understand the implications of so-called rest day working and any relevant agreements without a full and proper explanation of the whole thing from the ground up. It's not exactly simple and it's reasonably unique to railways.

 

[800001]

The Harrogate - York section is generally pretty well used. I don't think the passengers will disappoint.

Noticed today that the new service uses plat 11 at York, saw numerous 2Txx Northern services using plat 5, saw 1S33 northbound Cross-country using plat 3.

 

[yorksrob]

Noticed today that the new service uses plat 11 at York, saw numerous 2Txx Northern services using plat 5, saw 1S33 northbound Cross-country using plat 3.

That's interesting. Fewer conflicting movements than using the bay I guess.

 

[800001]

That's interesting. Fewer conflicting movements than using the bay I guess.

Yeah, seems strange seeing xc on 3, and local service on 5. Unsure if booked or regular

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The two are effectively separate issues. Rest day working has been withdrawn which has led to the cancellations, had RDW been available there would almost certainly have been no (or minimal) issues.

Indeed but thats running the service on the goodwill of the staff the industry collectively needs to confront this issue but doubt it will happen

 

[greyman42]

That's interesting. Fewer conflicting movements than using the bay I guess.

They were using both as the terminator from Leeds and the departing train to Leeds arrive/depart close together.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yeah, seems strange seeing xc on 3, and local service on 5. Unsure if booked or regular

XC is booked in P3 for this week as a VAR schedule according to RTT, it’s booked P10 normally.

 

[infobleep]

There never been a 19:58 Haywards Heath to Cambridge service or is this something that's happened due to covid?

If you wish to get on a train to Reading, officially you need to get the 19:50 and have a 29-minute wait at Gatwick Airport.

That's 9 minutes longer than some of the time savings I have previously read about when they talk about speeding up train services.

As it is, I am taking my chances on the 20:12. That isn't an official connection at Gatwick Airport, as you only have 6 minutes to change trains and that isn't long enough.......officially.

Update: As it transpires, due to trespassers they cancelled the Gatwick Airport stop on the Gatwick Airport to Reading service.

There is a 20:32 to Redhill but no 21;00 services so will have to wait until 21:43. Had this occurred last week I could have got the 19:53 but because it's very essential that skips Haywards Heath now and I didn't make the 19:50, I had to get the 20:12. Last week I could have got the 20:19 Peterboriugh service and I'd have been ok. Oh well it's not often this happens.

I even arrived into Gatwick Airport before the incoming service from Reading was due to arrive but 10 minutes is 10 minutes.

My ticket isn't valid via Clapham Junction and there was no ticket acceptance. I bought my particular ticket as it was cheaper. So one must accepts the consequences of doing so. I could have paid extra to change my tixket but I decide to sit it out instead.

 

[TEW]

I see the Guildford to Waterloo via Epsom services is now departing at x45 rather than x42. Before covid when they use to depart at x08 and '28, they were never retimed back for the leaf fall period. I assumed leaves weren't an issue for them and only become an issue between Effingham Junction and Hinchley Wood.

I wonder if the trains kept to better time during the last fall period compared to previously.

The trains via Cobham are now permanently retimed to be always 3 minutes earlier regardless of the leaf fall or not. Perhaps there are enough other issues all year round to justify it. 3 minutes is 15% of 20 minutes to compare it to schemes where the government say you will have a 20 minute shorter journey time.

The retiming of Cobham services is at least in part for platforming reasons at Guildford. The Epsom and Cobham services no longer interwork at Guildford and with the slight retiming, the down services have also had a few minutes added en route after Surbiton, all Cobham services can use platform 1 with just under a half an hour turnaround.

 

[infobleep]

The retiming of Cobham services is at least in part for platforming reasons at Guildford. The Epsom and Cobham services no longer interwork at Guildford and with the slight retiming, the down services have also had a few minutes added en route after Surbiton, all Cobham services can use platform 1 with just under a half an hour turnaround.

When I look on Real Time Trains I see what you mean. It couldn't depart at x07 or x37 due to the incoming train. I wonder if they could alternate between platform 1 and platform 3. I guess they would cross paths, which would still be an issue.

Interestingly there us still a 05:37, 18:07 and 23:07. There is also a 22:03 and the rest are x04 or '34.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

When I look on Real Time Trains I see what you mean. It couldn't depart at x07 or x37 due to the incoming train. I wonder if they could alternate between platform 1 and platform 3. I guess they would cross paths, which would still be an issue.

Must be said at a super-local level with big turnaround times you don’t have to worry about those sorts of schedule clashes.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Interestingly there us still a 05:37, 18:07 and 23:07. There is also a 22:03 and the rest are x04 or '34.

The 1807 follows a set of empties bound for Clapham, which depart Guildford at 1803 having arrived less than 10 mins earlier on a stopper from Waterloo via Woking.

 

[TEW]

When I look on Real Time Trains I see what you mean. It couldn't depart at x07 or x37 due to the incoming train. I wonder if they could alternate between platform 1 and platform 3. I guess they would cross paths, which would still be an issue.

Interestingly there us still a 05:37, 18:07 and 23:07. There is also a 22:03 and the rest are x04 or '34.

Operationally it's far better for them to use platform 1 all day so that platform 3 is free and can be used if necessary for diverting Portsmouth to Waterloo services via Cobham.

 

[Minstral25]

There never been a 19:58 Haywards Heath to Cambridge service or is this something that's happened due to covid?

If you wish to get on a train to Reading, officially you need to get the 19:50 and have a 29-minute wait at Gatwick Airport.

That's 9 minutes longer than some of the time savings I have previously read about when they talk about speeding up train services.

As it is, I am taking my chances on the 20:12. That isn't an official connection at Gatwick Airport, as you only have 6 minutes to change trains and that isn't long enough.......officially.

Update: As it transpires, due to trespassers they cancelled the Gatwick Airport stop on the Gatwick Airport to Reading service.

There is a 20:32 to Redhill but no 21;00 services so will have to wait until 21:43. Had this occurred last week I could have got the 19:53 but because it's very essential that skips Haywards Heath now and I didn't make the 19:50, I had to get the 20:12. Last week I could have got the 20:19 Peterboriugh service and I'd have been ok. Oh well it's not often this happens.

I even arrived into Gatwick Airport before the incoming service from Reading was due to arrive but 10 minutes is 10 minutes.

My ticket isn't valid via Clapham Junction and there was no ticket acceptance. I bought my particular ticket as it was cheaper. So one must accepts the consequences of doing so. I could have paid extra to change my tixket but I decide to sit it out instead.

Assume all this is because they have reinstated the Gatwick Express to Brighton which means the Southern alternative that stopped at Haywards Heath has gone

 

[Bikeman78]

Assume all this is because they have reinstated the Gatwick Express to Brighton which means the Southern alternative that stopped at Haywards Heath has gone

The trains run in the same paths with the Haywards Heath stop replaced by pathing time. I can just about understand the removal of East Croydon to provide a non stop train from Gatwick to London but what does taking out Haywards Heath achieve? People from Brighton going to Gatwick or London don't arrive any earlier.

 

[JonathanH]

what does taking out Haywards Heath achieve?

It makes the service more attractive to Brighton passengers. Journey time isn't the only consideration - there is an exclusivity factor as well. Brighton passengers will look at the departure board and see that the service only stops at Gatwick and be more inclined to use it.

 

[Starmill]

It makes the service more attractive to Brighton passengers. Journey time isn't the only consideration - there is an exclusivity factor as well. Brighton passengers will look at the departure board and see that the service only stops at Gatwick and be more inclined to use it.

Maybe you would. But nearly everyone else will just look at the journey on their phone and see how long it takes, and not even notice anything else.

The idea that this actually makes it more attractive is, shall we say, unproven.

 

[Bikeman78]

It makes the service more attractive to Brighton passengers. Journey time isn't the only consideration - there is an exclusivity factor as well. Brighton passengers will look at the departure board and see that the service only stops at Gatwick and be more inclined to use it.

But what's the point? Does it cost more to go on Gatex from Brighton to Gatwick or Victoria? If not then there's no revenue gain for the railway. Fewer trains at Haywards Heath might actually reduce revenue slightly. Genuinely baffled.

Maybe you would. But nearly everyone else will just look at the journey on their phone and see how long it takes, and not even notice anything else.

The idea that this actually makes it more attractive is, shall we say, unproven.

People do make strange decisions. I recall people wedging onto a full class 144 at Skipton rather than take an empty class 333 that originated there a few minutes later. In that example, the Pacer was a few minutes faster than the 333 so there is some logic.

 

[Techniquest]

Agreed there, I'm more likely to go 'ooh that train doesn't call at MKC, I'll get that one' rather than perhaps the other train that arrives perhaps slightly quicker overall.

Quite, when the option is there, when travelling between Hereford and Birmingham I'll go for a train that doesn't go via Worcester Shrub Hill if I can. Even if that means I have to wait another 30 minutes and get to my destination later/leave my reason of travel earlier. I just get so bored of the long reversal time at Shrub Hill that I'd rather not go that way!

 

[Starmill]

Agreed there, I'm more likely to go 'ooh that train doesn't call at MKC, I'll get that one' rather than perhaps the other train that arrives perhaps slightly quicker overall.

Quite, when the option is there, when travelling between Hereford and Birmingham I'll go for a train that doesn't go via Worcester Shrub Hill if I can. Even if that means I have to wait another 30 minutes and get to my destination later/leave my reason of travel earlier. I just get so bored of the long reversal time at Shrub Hill that I'd rather not go that way!

That's really something enthusiasts consider that nobody else will do though. How will anyone else even know that you reverse at Worcester Shrub Hill?

 

[Techniquest]

That's really something enthusiasts consider that nobody else will do though. How will anyone else even know that you reverse at Worcester Shrub Hill?

Regular passengers would surely notice! It wouldn't be as bad if the reversal time wasn't over 10 minutes at times, those single line sections around Worcester can be a real pain in the rear!

 

[infobleep]

Agreed there, I'm more likely to go 'ooh that train doesn't call at MKC, I'll get that one' rather than perhaps the other train that arrives perhaps slightly quicker overall.

Quite, when the option is there, when travelling between Hereford and Birmingham I'll go for a train that doesn't go via Worcester Shrub Hill if I can. Even if that means I have to wait another 30 minutes and get to my destination later/leave my reason of travel earlier. I just get so bored of the long reversal time at Shrub Hill that I'd rather not go that way!

I take the train that is the fastest at the time I am travelling unless I am on a savings mission and taking slower trains because it's cheaper to do so

How many other trains from Brighton to Victoria run beside the Gatwick Express? I'm not aware of any, so nothing to compesr it against.

During the morning peak going north and evening peak south, the trains do stop at Haywards Heath. Are Brighton passengers suddenly not opt off travelling because it is the peak rush hour time period?

Are passengers travelling from Guildford to Clapham Junction out off by the fact only 1 fast train an hour runs? If they are, it hasn't stopped the other train from being cancelled due to a lack of patronage across the Portsmouth Direct.