December 2021 Timetable change

[MP393]

Worked by Manchester crews, or Wigan signed up on 195s

Wigan have always signed 195s as they work Barrow - Airports. (And Windermere Airports from Lancaster/Preston dependant on diagram)

 

[175001]

Both. Vic and Wigan sign 195s

 

[Oxfordblues]

I'm mildly excited about travelling next week from Newport to Crosskeys via Gaer Junc-Park Junc direct. The last booked train ran on 30 April 1962. Unforgivably shut by the dreadful Ernest Marples.

 

[Starmill]

I'm mildly excited about travelling next week from Newport to Crosskeys via Gaer Junc-Park Junc direct. The last booked train ran on 30 April 1962. Unforgivably shut by the dreadful Ernest Marples.

The improvements for the Severn Beach line, the Harrogate line and the Ebbw Valley line really are very significant bright spots among the gloom. Historic improvements, years in the making. Let's just hope that people use them and don't lose them.

 

[craigybagel]

Based on the empties from Craigentinny...

1M91 06:12 EDB-MIA
1S46 10:10 MIA-EDB
1M99 14:12 EDB-MIA
1S83 18:10 MIA-EDB

Curious as to who will be working these, as I didn't think the link at Manchester that signed the route also signed 802s. Or Preston for that matter. Glasgow do, but I didn't think they signed South of Preston, so either way something has changed?

I'm mildly excited about travelling next week from Newport to Crosskeys via Gaer Junc-Park Junc direct. The last booked train ran on 30 April 1962. Unforgivably shut by the dreadful Ernest Marples.

Pedantic of course, but there have been booked services that way since the branch reopened - albeit engineering work diverted services rather than regular timetable.

 

[Watershed]

Curious as to who will be working these, as I didn't think the link at Manchester that signed the route also signed 802s. Or Preston for that matter. Glasgow do, but I didn't think they signed South of Preston, so either way something has changed?

Manchester don't sign 802s -and I don't think there are any plans for the NW link to learn them; there is unlikely to ever be more than a handful of diagrams so it would be difficult keeping them current. But Preston and Glasgow West link have started to learn 802s and knowledge should be sufficient to cover one diagram a day.

The existing ECSs to/from Polmadie are still in the system, so if there aren't enough drivers available that sign 802s on a particular day, a 397 will no doubt substitute. It's a first step towards reintroducing the missing Liverpool-Glasgow services.

 

[MDB1images]

Curious as to who will be working these, as I didn't think the link at Manchester that signed the route also signed 802s. Or Preston for that matter. Glasgow do, but I didn't think they signed South of Preston, so either way something has changed?

Glasgow/Preston.

 

[craigybagel]

Manchester don't sign 802s -and I don't think there are any plans for the NW link to learn them; there is unlikely to ever be more than a handful of diagrams so it would be difficult keeping them current. But Preston and Glasgow West link have started to learn 802s and knowledge should be sufficient to cover one diagram a day.

Glasgow/Preston.

Thanks, I'll update the driver route/traction knowledge thread to show Preston signing 802s.

Also, you mention a Glasgow West link - I had Glasgow down as signing both the WCML as far as Preston and the ECML as far as Newcastle, but I didn't know there were links involved?

 

[D9006]

Wigan have always signed 195s as they work Barrow - Airports. (And Windermere Airports from Lancaster/Preston dependant on diagram)

Thanks for info

Both. Vic and Wigan sign 195s

Ta

 

[Watershed]

Thanks, I'll update the driver route/traction knowledge thread to show Preston signing 802s.

Also, you mention a Glasgow West link - I had Glasgow down as signing both the WCML as far as Preston and the ECML as far as Newcastle, but I didn't know there were links involved?

Glasgow conductors are all one link, but drivers have West and East links - for the time being.

West link sign Glasgow-Preston, Carstairs station/South Jn-Edinburgh and Polmadie and Craigentinny depots. Diversionary routes via Holytown and via Carmyle. 397s and now also learning 802s.

East link sign Edinburgh-Newcastle, Craigentinny depot and 802s.

 

[DaveHarries]

The improvements for the Severn Beach line, the Harrogate line and the Ebbw Valley line really are very significant bright spots among the gloom. Historic improvements, years in the making. Let's just hope that people use them and don't lose them.

The Severn Beach line is a route I use regularly so I am looking forward to the start of these improvements.

Dave

 

[Starmill]

I'm mildly excited about travelling next week from Newport to Crosskeys via Gaer Junc-Park Junc direct. The last booked train ran on 30 April 1962. Unforgivably shut by the dreadful Ernest Marples.

Also, thank goodness that as of Sunday there will be new cheaper "not via Cardiff" tickets available from the Ebbw Valley stations to Newport and at least one other destination: Cwmbran. There may be a few more.

 

[craigybagel]

Glasgow conductors are all one link, but drivers have West and East links - for the time being.

West link sign Glasgow-Preston, Carstairs station/South Jn-Edinburgh and Polmadie and Craigentinny depots. Diversionary routes via Holytown and via Carmyle. 397s and now also learning 802s.

East link sign Edinburgh-Newcastle, Craigentinny depot and 802s.

Must be a cushy life in the East link with a lot of passing! Thanks, I'll update when I get chance.

 

[Watershed]

Must be a cushy life in the East link with a lot of passing! Thanks, I'll update when I get chance.

Tell me about it! Some near 10 hour jobs just to work a train from Edinburgh to Newcastle (and then pass all the way back). It's crazy.

 

[Harvey10]

Just a shame the Sheffield to Doncaster via Rotherham service isn’t going back to its 30mins frequency services are often full and standing.
Nice to see the return of the Lincoln service to Leeds via Barnsley and Wakefield Kirkgate hopefully this will relieve a bit of pressure off the Nottingham service

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Tell me about it! Some near 10 hour jobs just to work a train from Edinburgh to Newcastle (and then pass all the way back). It's crazy.

Some people on this forum dare to suggest that there are inefficiences in the rail system and that costs could be 'easily' trimmed. Think also of EMR all the way from Nottingham to Liverpool.

 

[Watershed]

Some people on this forum dare to suggest that there are inefficiences in the rail system and that costs could be 'easily' trimmed. Think also of EMR all the way from Nottingham to Liverpool.

Liverpool-Norwich being crewed out of Nottingham and Norwich actually makes a lot of sense and is quite efficient. The only problem is you have late first trains, and early last trains, out of Liverpool. Which is why it would have made a lot of sense for EMR to set up a depot in Liverpool.

 

[dk1]

Liverpool-Norwich being crewed out of Nottingham and Norwich actually makes a lot of sense and is quite efficient. The only problem is you have late first trains, and early last trains, out of Liverpool. Which is why it would have made a lot of sense for EMR to set up a depot in Liverpool.

Which was all recruited for prior to Covid. Now on ice.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Liverpool-Norwich being crewed out of Nottingham and Norwich actually makes a lot of sense and is quite efficient. The only problem is you have late first trains, and early last trains, out of Liverpool. Which is why it would have made a lot of sense for EMR to set up a depot in Liverpool.

Plus the ECS for the first trains out of Liverpool, 3 hours out in the morning, the same back at night. Difficult to determine what the arrangements are at present and compare that to normal times. Certainly the first ECS sits in Lime Street for an hour 0631 to 0742, next the 0836 in service arrival sits for an hour and joins with the 0932 arrival, so that's a guard and driver travelling back passenger? This is a company, even with next weeks timetable uplift, operating a reduced timetable due to insufficient staff. No wonder if they are riding round in taxis and on the cushions!

 

[Watershed]

Plus the ECS for the first trains out of Liverpool, 3 hours out in the morning, the same back at night. Difficult to determine what the arrangements are at present and compare that to normal times. Certainly the first ECS sits in Lime Street for an hour 0631 to 0742, next the 0836 in service arrival sits for an hour and joins with the 0932 arrival, so that's a guard and driver travelling back passenger? This is a company, even with next weeks timetable uplift, operating a reduced timetable due to insufficient staff. No wonder if they are riding round in taxis and on the cushions!

Really those early morning ECSs should be in passenger services. They wouldn't have many calls as they can be diverted so many different ways (via Derby or Ilkeston, via Sheffield or round the Dore South curve, via Stockport or via Reddish, via Warrington or via Newton-le-Willows) but it would still be better than having a train with a guard passing on it, yet it running ECS. It's just an historic anomaly,

 

[JonathanH]

Really those early morning ECSs should be in passenger services. They wouldn't have many calls as they can be diverted so many different ways (via Derby or Ilkeston, via Sheffield or round the Dore South curve, via Stockport or via Reddish, via Warrington or via Newton-le-Willows) but it would still be better than having a train with a guard passing on it, yet it running ECS. It's just an historic anomaly,

Is there any station they could actually call at? They can all be avoided. Even Nottingham isn't a certainty if the stock had to be outberthed at Etches Park / Derby for some reason. (The only certain stations are Chinley to Grindleford and Edge Hill I think.)

 

[jfollows]

Really those early morning ECSs should be in passenger services. They wouldn't have many calls as they can be diverted so many different ways (via Derby or Ilkeston, via Sheffield or round the Dore South curve, via Stockport or via Reddish, via Warrington or via Newton-le-Willows) but it would still be better than having a train with a guard passing on it, yet it running ECS. It's just an historic anomaly,

Except that a recent ECS over the route was "converted" into a passenger service, overlooking the fact that it was required to use a goods line as part of its journey, and therefore the new timetable collapsed. Not that I'm disagreeing with you substantially, just observing that there are all sorts of unusual things which can pop up to prevent this!

And, by the way, 1L20 21:41 Manchester Piccadilly-Nottingham is the converted ECS I'm referring to and returns in the December 2021 timetable, discussion about why it was originally a problem when it was introduced in May 2021 and needed rerouting and retiming of two other trains is contained in locked thread New EMR service 2141 Manchester to Nottingham

 

[geoffk]

They arrive Victoria at xx49/xx50 and depart at xx00/xx01 so only in the platform 12 minutes maximum.

Presumably platforms 1 and 2 at Vic can't be used if these trains are longer than a single 185.

Congleton has a half hourly service to Manchester at that time of day.

But a Congleton stop on XC would be useful on Sundays when Northern runs only a skeleton stopping service to Stoke.

 

[oglord]

I'm mildly excited about travelling next week from Newport to Crosskeys via Gaer Junc-Park Junc direct. The last booked train ran on 30 April 1962. Unforgivably shut by the dreadful Ernest Marples.

On Sundays you can travel all the way to Ebbw Vale!

 

[josla1]

TPE have come out on Twitter today saying over the next few days there will be short notice alterations and cancellations due to staff issues. Why increase the timetable when they know full well they don’t have the staff?

 

[Bald Rick]

TPE have come out on Twitter today saying over the next few days there will be short notice alterations and cancellations due to staff issues. Why increase the timetable when they know full well they don’t have the staff?

Perhaps because the timetable was planned months ago, but the staff have only become unavailable in the last few days?

 

[MP393]

TPE are now in a similar situation to CrossCountry with a non renewal of a RDW agreement for drivers hence the short notice changes

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

TPE are now in a similar situation to CrossCountry with a non renewal of a RDW agreement for drivers hence the short notice changes

No need to worry they have cross ticket acceptance with other operators and the bit i like best is

Rail replacement buses will be in place, where possible, for those customers who will not have a regular journey option via train

Just when the industry needs to be picking itself we have another operator having to cut back it services. Still no doubt bean counters in Marsham St will see a few more quid off the overtime bill.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Plus the ECS for the first trains out of Liverpool, 3 hours out in the morning, the same back at night. Difficult to determine what the arrangements are at present and compare that to normal times. Certainly the first ECS sits in Lime Street for an hour 0631 to 0742, next the 0836 in service arrival sits for an hour and joins with the 0932 arrival, so that's a guard and driver travelling back passenger? This is a company, even with next weeks timetable uplift, operating a reduced timetable due to insufficient staff. No wonder if they are riding round in taxis and on the cushions!

The 0647 ex Liverpool returns next week. The 0851 being removed removes an entire drivers diagram. 5M06 and 5L54 both take diversionary routes so enable traincrew to retain route knowledge (and drivers to learn and pass out) via Chat Moss, Romiley, Dore Curve, Derby and Toton. It only looks inefficient to run these empty stock services to people on the outside looking in. The alternative would be for drivers and guards to be released to route refresh at least every six months for the various diversionary routes, not all of which would be possible to do within one shift.

 

[geoffk]

Just a shame the Sheffield to Doncaster via Rotherham service isn’t going back to its 30mins frequency services are often full and standing.
Nice to see the return of the Lincoln service to Leeds via Barnsley and Wakefield Kirkgate hopefully this will relieve a bit of pressure off the Nottingham service

Weymouth - Waterloo is down to hourly, while Salisbury - Waterloo "stoppers" are to/from Basingstoke only off-peak, with some to/from Reading evenings and Sundays. So some good, some bad.