December 2021 Timetable change

[woolos]

The Newport to Crosskeys start on 13 December

 

[PHILIPE]

The Newport to Crosskeys start on 13 December

Even if you got your info from RTT believe it when you see it. It might and it might happen as what you see is a Timetable handed down from Network Rail but liable for editing and tweaking by the TOC.

 

[BrianB]

No guarantees that things wont change, but this is a quick n dirty extract of what is in the database today.

 

[David Burrows]

On a previous thread I searched out the business case for the station, which suggests usage is likely to be pretty poor until such time that an hourly service can be provided.

Since there is an hourly through bus service from Soham to Cambridge City Centre (Drummer St bus station), rather than change trains at Ely, with possible missed connections and going to Cambridge station which is a long way from the city centre, I can' t see many people going Soham-Cambridge by train.

 

[Ianno87]

Since there is an hourly through bus service from Soham to Cambridge City Centre (Drummer St bus station), rather than change trains at Ely, with possible missed connections and going to Cambridge station which is a long way from the city centre, I can' t see many people going Soham-Cambridge by train.

The bus is painfully slow - takes over an hour from Soham to Central Cambridge, not many people take the bus either!

 

[Starmill]

Since there is an hourly through bus service from Soham to Cambridge City Centre (Drummer St bus station), rather than change trains at Ely, with possible missed connections and going to Cambridge station which is a long way from the city centre, I can' t see many people going Soham-Cambridge by train.

Indeed not. And given the rather limited attraction of Peterborough or Ipswich, very few people will use the station at all. Probably just those going long-distance, who've booked in advance and so don't care how frequent the service is, and whatever London demand there is.

 

[Ianno87]

Indeed not. And given the rather limited attraction of Peterborough or Ipswich, very few people will use the station at all. Probably just those going long-distance, who've booked in advance and so don't care how frequent the service is, and whatever London demand there is.

The timings of the existing 2 hourly service don't work out well for traditional Cambridge commuting - a very early or late arrival.

Almost certainly will be a quiet station until it goes hourly.

 

[Bikeman78]

The inconvenience of needing to change trains to reach Cambridge too. And of course the service calling at Soham won't wait if the connection from Cambridge and is late in arriving at Ely. And it's two hours 'till the next one...

Aside from Scotrail, most TOCs will provide a bus or taxi if the next train is more than an hour after a cancelled train or missed connection.

 

[dk1]

Aside from Scotrail, most TOCs will provide a bus or taxi if the next train is more than an hour after a cancelled train or missed connection.

But isn’t the Scotrail thing down to industrial action?

 

[Starmill]

Aside from Scotrail, most TOCs will provide a bus or taxi if the next train is more than an hour after a cancelled train or missed connection.

They may well do, but will that be offered on a proactive basis on every occasion? And will prospective passengers actually know that?

 

[Greybeard33]

Northern actually has Hull-Halifax going back to hourly, Lincoln-Sheffield being extended to Leeds again, return of the hourly Liverpool-Warrington Bank Quay and a half hourly Leeds-York via Harrogate which is an improvement even on the pre pandemic timetable. But as the previous poster says this could still change.

A paper for the 15 September Rail North Committee meeting has the following summary of the Northern and TPE changes:

Northern is introducing the following service changes at the December 2021 timetable change:

• improves to an all-day 1 train per hour (tph) service between Newcastle – Morpeth – Chathill
• improves to an all-day 2 tph service between Carlisle – Hexham – Newcastle
• improves to a 3 trains per day (tpd) service between Chester-le-Street & Durham
• improves to an 8 tpd service between Morecambe/Lancaster – Skipton
• reduces to a peak only service between Bridlington – Hull until the May 2022 timetable however the Scarborough to Hull service will remain at once an hour.
• improves to an all-day 2 tph service between York – Harrogate – Leeds
• improves to an all-day 1 tph service between Leeds – Sheffield – Lincoln
• improves to an all-day 1tph service between Hull – Leeds – Halifax
• improves to an all-day 1 tph service between Liverpool – Warrington – Manchester Airport
• improves to a 7 tpd service between Liverpool – Warrington Bank Quay

TransPennine Express is introducing the following service improvements at the December 2021 timetable change:

• improves to a 5 trains per day (tpd) service between Edinburgh – Newcastle
• improves to an all-day 1 train per hour (tph) service between Manchester – Scarborough
• improves to an all-day 1 tph service between Manchester – Edinburgh/Glasgow

https://democracy.transportforthenorth.com/documents/s3082/Item%206%20Operational%20Update.pdf

 

[tommy2215]

A paper for the 15 September Rail North Committee meeting has the following summary of the Northern and TPE changes:

https://democracy.transportforthenorth.com/documents/s3082/Item%206%20Operational%20Update.pdf

Thanks, that's very helpful! Them saying all-day 1tph service between Newcastle - Morpeth - Chathill seems a bit misleading!

 

[mrd269697]

Chathill is getting an hourly service? That’s interesting. Maybe just as far as Alnmouth would suffice, as Chathill is in the middle of nowhere - and it’s a good 11 miles between the two stations. If it’s going ahead however I would eventually I’d like to see this ran through to Berwick via Belford, which should hopefully reopen. The stops in between Chathill and Newcastle (the ones only served by the peak time Chathill services) all would benefit from an hourly service as they are in the middle of villages.

 

[Class 170101]

Chathill is getting an hourly service? That’s interesting. Maybe just as far as Alnmouth would suffice, as Chathill is in the middle of nowhere - and it’s a good 11 miles between the two stations. If it’s going ahead however I would eventually I’d like to see this ran through to Berwick via Belford, which should hopefully reopen. The stops in between Chathill and Newcastle (the ones only served by the peak time Chathill services) all would benefit from an hourly service as they are in the middle of villages.

Not according to Real Timetrains in December. Only hourly between Newcastle and Morpeth and mostly runs south of Newcastle towards Carlisle.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Morpeth between 0200 and 0159 on 15/12/2021

Train information at Morpeth between 0200 and 0159 on 15/12/2021. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Ianno87]

Chathill is getting an hourly service? That’s interesting. Maybe just as far as Alnmouth would suffice, as Chathill is in the middle of nowhere - and it’s a good 11 miles between the two stations. If it’s going ahead however I would eventually I’d like to see this ran through to Berwick via Belford, which should hopefully reopen. The stops in between Chathill and Newcastle (the ones only served by the peak time Chathill services) all would benefit from an hourly service as they are in the middle of villages.

Not according to Real Timetrains in December. Only hourly between Newcastle and Morpeth and mostly runs south of Newcastle towards Carlisle.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Morpeth between 0200 and 0159 on 15/12/2021

Train information at Morpeth between 0200 and 0159 on 15/12/2021. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Typo / misunderstanding of the service pattern suspect. Should read "1tph Newcastle to Morpeth with limited extensions to Chathill" - I.e. the service group is reinstated to normal.

 

[sycns]

Are we likely to ever see a return to the half hourly stopping service between Sheffield & Doncaster VIA Rotherham Central?

 

[sleeper fan]

Any plans for the hourly Bournemouth to Manchester to resume from it's currently bi hourly+ state?

 

[anthony263]

No guarantees that things wont change, but this is a quick n dirty extract of what is in the database today.

Sunday service looks poor

 

[RailAleFan]

I've advanced the timetable comparison tool for current / December 2021

Rail - Timetable Comparison

Side-by-side comparison of adjacent UK National Rail timetable periods by location or TOC

live-departures.info

 

[Melancholia]

Nice to see GWR is planning on reintroducing the Paddington to Cardiff trains. We'll see if these will be run using IETs (dependant on the cracking situation), or maybe they'll utilise 387s.

Most importantly for me as well is 1C01 0545 Paddington to Bristol TM looks to be coming back. Used to be a very useful train for me when I finish night shifts.

 

[philosopher]

The December 2021 timetable still does not have:
1) Avanti's three trains an hour between London to Birmingham
2) Chiltern's two trains an hour on weekends between London and Birmingham, with a fast service taking about 1 hour 45 minute.

Are these likely to ever return and if so when?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The December 2021 timetable still does not have:
1) Avanti's three trains an hour between London to Birmingham
2) Chiltern's two trains an hour on weekends between London and Birmingham, with a fast service taking about 1 hour 45 minute.

Are these likely to ever return and if so when?

The timetable at the moment is being reduced either to match reduced demand or reduced traincrew availability. Some services as yet have no timescales for return.

 

[The Planner]

The December 2021 timetable still does not have:
1) Avanti's three trains an hour between London to Birmingham
2) Chiltern's two trains an hour on weekends between London and Birmingham, with a fast service taking about 1 hour 45 minute.

Are these likely to ever return and if so when?

Doubt you'll get the third Brum before May 22.

 

[philosopher]

Doubt you'll get the third Brum before May 22.

Is it definitely going to return at some point?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Is it definitely going to return at some point?

You’re asking a question nobody in the industry knows the answer to.

Why the worry about something that has already been explained will be a long time into the future before it has been decided.

 

[philosopher]

You’re asking a question nobody in the industry knows the answer to.

Why the worry about something that has already been explained will be a long time into the future before it has been decided.

Because by May 2022, these ‘temporary timetables‘ will have been in place for over 2 years. I do not think it is unreasonable for passengers who frequently use a service is currently significantly worse to ask if such changes will be permanent if they have been going on for that long.

If train operators do wish to reduce services permanently, they should release a proposed future timetable which passengers can consult on, rather then continually rolling over temporary timetables, which can’t be consulted on. Scotrail, SWR and LNER have already done this. If they do plan on eventually restoring pre Covid service levels they should be honest with passengers on how long the reductions will continue for.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

If they do plan on eventually restoring pre Covid service levels they should be honest with passengers on how long the reductions will continue for.

Maybe your crystal ball can ‘be honest’ and tell us when Covid is going to subside.

Until the industry knows what demand is likely to look like there’s very little point consulting. Even SWR’s consultation isn’t a timetable but just a broad specification that they say will be adapted when there is further data.

 

[swt_passenger]

Because by May 2022, these ‘temporary timetables‘ will have been in place for over 2 years. I do not think it is unreasonable for passengers who frequently use a service is currently significantly worse to ask if such changes will be permanent if they have been going on for that long.

If train operators do wish to reduce services permanently, they should release a proposed future timetable which passengers can consult on, rather then continually rolling over temporary timetables, which can’t be consulted on. Scotrail, SWR and LNER have already done this. If they do plan on eventually restoring pre Covid service levels they should be honest with passengers on how long the reductions will continue for.

In the particular case of SWR, they’re still trying to get a timetable into place to meet the 2017 franchise requirements. I don’t think it’s really because they’re more on the ball than other TOCs regarding current issues…

 

[43055]

Looking at the London - Chester - Holyhead route there will be a additional Crewe - Holyhead and return on weekdays leaving Crewe at 1148 and returning at 1450. Also a number of Chester services also return as a shuttle from Crewe but not every hour. The 0551 and 1358 from Holyhead work through to London with returns at 0910 and 1810. Weekends look to be the same as the current timetable.

 

[greyman42]

Because by May 2022, these ‘temporary timetables‘ will have been in place for over 2 years. I do not think it is unreasonable for passengers who frequently use a service is currently significantly worse to ask if such changes will be permanent if they have been going on for that long.

If train operators do wish to reduce services permanently, they should release a proposed future timetable which passengers can consult on, rather then continually rolling over temporary timetables, which can’t be consulted on. Scotrail, SWR and LNER have already done this. If they do plan on eventually restoring pre Covid service levels they should be honest with passengers on how long the reductions will continue for.

I thought LNER was back to pre Covid timetable already?