December 2023 Timetable Change

[800001]

Still LNER 6tph?
And still...
2 x Edinburgh
1 x Newcastle
2 x Leeds (2 hourly to Harrogate)
0.5 x Lincoln
0.5 x York
...or something different planned?

Broadly speaking yes. It’s been finalised by LNER but now needs DFT sign off before it can progress.

 

[dk1]

Still LNER 6tph?
And still...
2 x Edinburgh
1 x Newcastle
2 x Leeds (2 hourly to Harrogate)
0.5 x Lincoln
0.5 x York
...or something different planned?

Wasn’t a 2-hourly Middlesbrough service on the original list along with 3tph to Leeds in some hours?

 

[800001]

Wasn’t a 2-hourly Middlesbrough service on the original list along with 3tph to Leeds in some hours?

Those required some of the new fleet they were meant to be getting.

 

[dk1]

Those required some of the new fleet they were meant to be getting.

Ah the 10 additional units that the prospective tender went out for so as to rid the route of legacy stock.

 

[TheBigD]

Not the best of images, but this was what was originally planned for May 2022...

 

[dk1]

Not the best of images, but this was what was originally planned for May 2022...

Jeez I’m dizzy just trying to adjust/work that out lol.

 

[800001]

Ah the 10 additional units that the prospective tender went out for so as to rid the route of legacy stock.

Yes, don’t even know what stage that is at.
Last I heard it was out to tender, chosen bidder decided, but legal challenges.

 

[dk1]

Found this….

 

[yorkshireguy21]

Not the best of images, but this was what was originally planned for May 2022...

Interesting to see a set of empty boxes for Dewsbury & Huddersfield. Perhaps LNER wish to run trains there in the future?

 

[Liverpool 507]

Only from Nottingham rather than Liverpool

I think that operates between Nottingham & Norwich

 

[Halish Railway]

I’d imagine that the Leeds NW / Shipley triangle workings will be modified to remove inter-working as the Bradford Forster Square to Ilkley and Skipton services are planned to be worked by three carriage 331s, with the rest worked by four carriage units.

 

[Class 170101]

LNER don't upload the services. If NR weren't happy then they wouldn't appear. We still aren't back at 12 weeks, and most TOCs won't ever be.

Does also look like there isn’t much change (if any) so easy roll forward

No Cleethorpes service as far as I can see

 

[Bald Rick]

For info big LNER timetable change is now planned for Dec 2024 and is currently be worked on, although the DFT are very keen for it to commence May 2024!

DfT have said Dec 24.

(and it was never going to be May, but June instead).

However I wouldn’t bet the mortgage on Dec 24 either yet. Still plenty of hoops to go through. Buy some popcorn as it will be fun to watch.

 

[Liverpool 507]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet but Lumo paths are also showing in the system for Dec 23

 

[Adsy125]

There isn’t?
Extra services are the plan!

Apologies, I'd just assumed based on what's been happening everywhere else! Fantastic to see an extra tph on the East Coast.

 

[dk1]

Only from Nottingham rather than Liverpool

Yes, that’s what I said.

 

[CAF397]

Interesting to see a set of empty boxes for Dewsbury & Huddersfield. Perhaps LNER wish to run trains there in the future?

They were well underway route learning Leeds-Huddersfield via Dewsbury in early 2020 when Covid struck. Was that announced as a complete withdrawal from Huddersfield, or to be revisited?

 

[dk1]

They were well underway route learning Leeds-Huddersfield via Dewsbury in early 2020 when Covid struck. Was that announced as a complete withdrawal from Huddersfield, or to be revisited?

Was such a shame that some TOCs and local union reps failed to agree a training plan.

 

[800001]

They were well underway route learning Leeds-Huddersfield via Dewsbury in early 2020 when Covid struck. Was that announced as a complete withdrawal from Huddersfield, or to be revisited?

It was put on hold.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Apologies, I'd just assumed based on what's been happening everywhere else! Fantastic to see an extra tph on the East Coast.

I'm not sure cuts will be the order of the day for a few TOCs, LNER passenger numbers are over 100% of pre COVID, in most cases the TOCs running the most services Vs 2019 are the ones that have recovered most of their passengers.

I'm hoping this winter will be the turning point on the railways where we switch from cuts to service expansion again in a number a TOCs to increase revenue.

Interesting to see some of the timetables but the under performing TOCs will see cuts I think

 

[hexagon789]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet but Lumo paths are also showing in the system for Dec 24

Blimey, they're keen!

 

[anthony263]

Be nice if TFW could get Swanline to actually run. The 1105 from Swansea is nearly always cancelled.

 

[Liverpool 507]

Blimey, they're keen!

Silly me! Changed to 23

Yes, that’s what I said.

Yes, but what I’ve said is it hasn’t started from Liverpool since before covid, thus providing a two hour service gap.

 

[SargeNpton]

They have yet to get legalistic over various scenarios where NR don't fulfil its licence. Can't see it changing.


For what? The WTT? 12 weeks doesnt apply to the LTP offer.

Network Rail's "Calendar of Milestone Dates" document for the train planning process always show the release of LTP data aa being 14 weeks ahead of the start date - which gives the TOCs a two-week window to get them all set up in the reservations system.

Public-facing journey planners and ticketing systems are then able to sell them up to 12 weeks ahead. For retailing that T-12 target is both LTP and STP.

 

[The Planner]

Network Rail's "Calendar of Milestone Dates" document for the train planning process always show the release of LTP data aa being 14 weeks ahead of the start date - which gives the TOCs a two-week window to get them all set up in the reservations system.

Public-facing journey planners and ticketing systems are then able to sell them up to 12 weeks ahead. For retailing that T-12 target is both LTP and STP.

T12 is dead.

 

[dk1]

Silly me! Changed to 23


Yes, but what I’ve said is it hasn’t started from Liverpool since before covid, thus providing a two hour service gap.

Just the same with the 12:51 the other way which leaves a 2 hour gap on the eastern leg of the route which I mentioned in a prior post. Hopefully these should get sorted as stock and staffing improve.

 

[Class 170101]

T12 is dead.

Legally I don't think it is. NR 'lost' on changing away from a Dec TT change date via the ORR as I understand. NR may want to operate using less time than T-18 (as was proposed) but whether all TOCs want to do that and the suggestion is they may have to gradually push out (or back) to T-18.

It will be interesting to see how much notice the travelling public gets concerning Christmas / New Year services.

 

[Bald Rick]

It will be interesting to see how much notice the travelling public gets concerning Christmas / New Year services.

8 weeks.

As I said upthread, there is no plan to return to 12.

However there are plans to sell tickets much further out than 12, as LNER and CS already do.

 

[johntea]

TPE should be introducing their new Manchester-Huddersfield-Wakefield-Castleford-York service in the December timetable.

They're certainly parked up quite a bit on the new platform at Castleford on a weekly basis at the moment!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Those required some of the new fleet they were meant to be getting.

But the new fleet would have seen off the IC225s, so the carriages would have been the same? I know 225s can’t go to Middlesbrough, but the Azumas that would have to cover for them if they went off lease - and now don’t have to - can.

Not that I believe Middlesbrough justifies 1tp2h.

1tp2h to Bradford Forster Square could really threaten Grand Central. Mind you, seeing as they seem the much more expensive train to Doncaster, York and Wakefield than LNER and Hull Trains, I’m not necessarily complaining.