Delay repay on FCC

[Class377]

Hi all;

Last Thursday I was in London on an off-peak TC which I'd planned to excess with a single from Elstree to St Albans to allow me to travel back on a stopping service in the peak back. I arrived at St Pancras International at about 6PM (so well into the peak) and headed straight for the ticket office, at which I was told "there are delays, you can use your off-peak ticket" so I got onto a train which was already delayed by 28 minutes (the 1750 to Bedford Midland). It was the first one there and was advertised as semi-fast to St Albans, but it arrived at SAC 38 minutes late (1858 instead of 1820).

My question is; since this train was over 30 minutes late, am I entitled to some delay repay compensation? Or would it not count, since it was already delayed leaving when I arrived at the station (arriving after it was due to have gone) and it was effectively in the peak on an off-peak, despite it being valid due to delays?

Many thanks for your replies.

 

[island]

You could try for it, but knowing FCC they might ask "why didn't you have a valid ticket for that peak train" and I really wouldn't say it's worth the hassle.

 

[sonic2009]

If you were advised that your ticket was valid on the service without an excess then i don't think FCC can argue.

FCC should have a record if ticket restrictions were lifted.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

 

[GadgetMan]

Hi all;

Last Thursday I was in London on an off-peak TC which I'd planned to excess with a single from Elstree to St Albans to allow me to travel back on a stopping service in the peak back. I arrived at St Pancras International at about 6PM (so well into the peak) and headed straight for the ticket office, at which I was told "there are delays, you can use your off-peak ticket" so I got onto a train which was already delayed by 28 minutes (the 1750 to Bedford Midland). It was the first one there and was advertised as semi-fast to St Albans, but it arrived at SAC 38 minutes late (1858 instead of 1820).

My question is; since this train was over 30 minutes late, am I entitled to some delay repay compensation? Or would it not count, since it was already delayed leaving when I arrived at the station (arriving after it was due to have gone) and it was effectively in the peak on an off-peak, despite it being valid due to delays?

Many thanks for your replies.

Delay repay is calculated by the overall delay to your journey, not the train.

What time did you plan on arriving at your destination, and what time did you get there?

 

[greatkingrat]

Indeed, it is quite possible that any passengers who were actually there at 1750 would have caught a preceding train also running late so maybe no-one was delayed by 30 minutes.

 

[yorkie]

Sounds like good customer service to me.

It is not at all clear that your journey was delayed by more than 30 minutes, but insufficient information is provided to judge that for sure.

 

[34D]

Arriving at STP at 6pm when trains are running to time, your first train is 1W90 the 18:02 to Bedford, fast to SAC arriving there at 18:19. Assuming you entered the building at 6pm, then you may not have caught that and instead may have caught 1G73 the 18:06 to Bedford, also fast to SAC arriving there at 18:25.

Your actual arrival was 18:58.

In my opinion, you should only make the delay repay claim if you genuinely arrived at STP in sufficient time to catch one of the above trains. If you were actually a bit later than that, then IMHO it is wrong to claim. Recall that they could theoretically check CCTV.

 

[Mr Spock]

The OP said that he wanted to catch the stopping train (presumaably the one that stops at Elstree) which would make it the 18.10 departure with a planned arrival in St Albans at 18.45.

 

[RJ]

Hi all;

Last Thursday I was in London on an off-peak TC which I'd planned to excess with a single from Elstree to St Albans to allow me to travel back on a stopping service in the peak back. I arrived at St Pancras International at about 6PM (so well into the peak) and headed straight for the ticket office, at which I was told "there are delays, you can use your off-peak ticket" so I got onto a train which was already delayed by 28 minutes (the 1750 to Bedford Midland). It was the first one there and was advertised as semi-fast to St Albans, but it arrived at SAC 38 minutes late (1858 instead of 1820).

My question is; since this train was over 30 minutes late, am I entitled to some delay repay compensation? Or would it not count, since it was already delayed leaving when I arrived at the station (arriving after it was due to have gone) and it was effectively in the peak on an off-peak, despite it being valid due to delays?

Many thanks for your replies.

You claim delay repay if arrival at your destination is delayed by at least 30 minutes. Not if you pick up a late running train that gets you in before that point. Unless you were at St Pancras before 17:50, holding a valid ticket for that service, you can't justify claiming for that service.

If you're considering swindling FCC, just remember that they're more than happy the have the book thrown at anyone who puts a foot wrong. Think about that when applying for your £3 voucher!

 

[jon0844]

I doubt FCC would or could know if you were trying it on, just as people were claiming for trains they weren't even on if they had access to information on delayed trains.

However, there's the moral issue. It's just not right to do it!

If you turn up during disruption and manage to get an earlier train that gets you where you want to be at the same time (possibly even earlier) then you can hardly claim for the train you did want that was cancelled.

Anyone who thinks that FCC can be a little harsh at times has no excuse if they're happy to try and claim for something they're not entitled to.

 

[RJ]

If you turn up during disruption and manage to get an earlier train that gets you where you want to be at the same time (possibly even earlier) then you can hardly claim for the train you did want that was cancelled.

There is also the danger that a train preceding that one also ran late enough to mean that there would have been a much smaller delay than that being claimed.

I.e The 17:50 left at 18:20. But the 17:35 (same calling pattern) left at 17:55, so someone turning up for the 17:50 would be 5 minutes late, not 30 minutes late.

 

[Tibbs]

I doubt FCC would or could know if you were trying it on, just as people were claiming for trains they weren't even on if they had access to information on delayed trains.

However, there's the moral issue. It's just not right to do it!

If you turn up during disruption and manage to get an earlier train that gets you where you want to be at the same time (possibly even earlier) then you can hardly claim for the train you did want that was cancelled.

Anyone who thinks that FCC can be a little harsh at times has no excuse if they're happy to try and claim for something they're not entitled to.

However, as is often the case, the trains that do run late are packed to the gunnels, extremely hot and very very uncomfortable. When a train is like that I'm happy to claim money back from delay repay for the inconvenience of being a train that transports people in such horrible conditions.

I'm claiming compensation for having to stand when I usually time my journey specifically so I can sit and not have my face smooshed against the window or into some tall hipster's sweaty, undeodorised armpit.

In my mind at least, delay repay is about compensating you for the inconvenience of the delayed train, whatever that inconvenience may be.

/edit
Also bear in mind that whether you claim delay repay or not the TOC still gets the money from Network Rail if it's their fault the delay occurred. I'd much rather the money go back to me than as a profit centre on their balance sheet. At least I'll be ploughing that money back into the rail network through the vouchers, rather than to shareholder's profits.

 

[RJ]

However, as is often the case, the trains that do run late are packed to the gunnels, extremely hot and very very uncomfortable. When a train is like that I'm happy to claim money back from delay repay for the inconvenience of being a train that transports people in such horrible conditions.

I'm claiming compensation for having to stand when I usually time my journey specifically so I can sit and not have my face smooshed against the window or into some tall hipster's sweaty, undeodorised armpit.

In my mind at least, delay repay is about compensating you for the inconvenience of the delayed train, whatever that inconvenience may be.

/edit
Also bear in mind that whether you claim delay repay or not the TOC still gets the money from Network Rail if it's their fault the delay occurred. I'd much rather the money go back to me than as a profit centre on their balance sheet. At least I'll be ploughing that money back into the rail network through the vouchers, rather than to shareholder's profits.

If you don't like the train service, why on earth do you make the conscious decision to use it? You have the gift of free will. People who use this as a justification to evade paying the fare or to make fraudulent claims are truly pathetic and deserve to have the book thrown at them!

 

[Tibbs]

Thanks all the same, but I pay 3 grand (that's 3 THOUSAND POUNDS) for my ticket.

I'm sure you make enough money that you light your cigars with £50 notes, and laugh at spending £3k on a ticket, but I don't. It's a massive percentage of my yearly salary.

At that point, I don't have a choice, I have to get the train as I can't afford to get home any other way.

The train companies got £184m from Network Rail for delays in 2011, and distributed only £650k per company to travellers! The rest is free money for them that should be compensation to us. They shouldn't have it, it's not for them.

They could do so much more to effectively distribute that rightful compensation to the travellers, but they don't. And at that point, I'm more than happy to take the occasional £12 in tokens that I spend back with the rail firms anyway.

 

[Greenback]

Thanks all the same, but I pay 3 grand (that's 3 THOUSAND POUNDS) for my ticket.

There's no need to shout.

I'm sure you make enough money that you light your cigars with £50 notes, and laugh at spending £3k on a ticket, but I don't. It's a massive percentage of my yearly salary.

£3000 is a lot of money for almost everyone on this forum.

At that point, I don't have a choice, I have to get the train as I can't afford to get home any other way.

I'm always surprised when people say they don't have a choice, whether it be shopping at a supermarket, travelling by train, or anything else.

Ther eis almost always a choice. Using the supermarket example, no one has to sue a supermarket. When people do they usually choose to do so because they perceive it to be cheaper, or because the hours of opening are more convenient, or because they prefer to be able to buy a wide range of goods under one roof. But there are still alternatives, even if they require more planning, or simply adjusting a lifestyle.

When it comes to rail travel, everyone has a choice about where they live, how they get to work, and what career they have. Sometimes there compromises to be made, but that is what happens when we have freedom of choice in this way, we can;t always have exactly what we want, we have to make the best of it.

The train companies got £184m from Network Rail for delays in 2011, and distributed only £650k per company to travellers! The rest is free money for them that should be compensation to us. They shouldn't have it, it's not for them.

They could do so much more to effectively distribute that rightful compensation to the travellers, but they don't. And at that point, I'm more than happy to take the occasional £12 in tokens that I spend back with the rail firms anyway.

I'm all in favour of taking advantage of whatever scheme the local TOC runs for season ticket compensation. But that is for delays and cancellation to services, not as compensation for travelling conditions, which are pretty horrible in many parts of the country, particularly at peak times (or on Voyagers at most times).

 

[Tibbs]

Why are you making out I hate travelling on the train? 99 journeys out of 100 I love it. It's fast, efficient and I normally get to sit in a comfortable seat. It's the one day when it all goes tits up that I want (and get) compensation for. The reason I moved to Watford was to take advantage of the excellent train service, especially compared to the cattle wagons that serve the Windsor line into Waterloo.

As with so many things on the railways the system is so totally skewed in favour of the TOCs that a little redressing of the balance is needed. If I can do that, I will.

The delay repay scam the TOCs have going on is nothing short of fraud. They're keeping money that isn't theirs.

 

[jon0844]

I agree people aren't claiming what they're entitled to. I was one of them. Rarely bothered as I had plan B's and rarely got seriously delayed. My time was worth more than claiming.

However, when I did bother to claim it wasn't just to try and get money back as compensation for my season (and I paid around £3500 so count yourself lucky!) by claiming where I wasn't really delayed at all.

 

[Greenback]

Why are you making out I hate travelling on the train? 99 journeys out of 100 I love it. It's fast, efficient and I normally get to sit in a comfortable seat. It's the one day when it all goes tits up that I want (and get) compensation for. The reason I moved to Watford was to take advantage of the excellent train service, especially compared to the cattle wagons that serve the Windsor line into Waterloo.

I didn't mean to accuse you of hating rail travel. I'm sorry if my post came across that way. I just picked up on your 'At that point I have no choice' piece. I always challenge such statements, though I accept that not everyone has a choice except to be delayed during times of disruption.

As with so many things on the railways the system is so totally skewed in favour of the TOCs that a little redressing of the balance is needed. If I can do that, I will.

I agree that the system isn't perfect, and there is a lot I would like to see changed.

The delay repay scam the TOCs have going on is nothing short of fraud. They're keeping money that isn't theirs.

I'm not sure that that is the case, though I daresay that the scheme is as flawed as the rest of the industry.

I have to agree with the statement on the FCC website:

Fraudulent claims
Please be reminded that Delay Repay claims may only be made for journeys actually made where delays exceed 30 minutes or longer. Claiming for journeys not made is fraud.

I am sure that you do not do that yourself. As I said I'm all in favour of taking advantage of whatever the local TOC scheme allows for, that's fair enough, as long as they journey has been made and the delay is over 30 minutes.

 

[Tibbs]

Well I'm safe on the delay repay as I make every journey I claim for, and the train I'm on is delayed by the amount of time necessary to qualify.

An interesting one - I went to get the 8:22, which was cancelled, and instead I got the 8:27, which got me into Euston 10 minutes later than the 8:22.

Now they approved the delay repay even though they must have known I'd have just gotten on the train 5 minutes later, so by definition it's about the lateness (or non-appearance) of the train rather than the person.

 

[Greenback]

Well I'm safe on the delay repay as I make every journey I claim for, and the train I'm on is delayed by the amount of time necessary to qualify.

An interesting one - I went to get the 8:22, which was cancelled, and instead I got the 8:27, which got me into Euston 10 minutes later than the 8:22.

Now they approved the delay repay even though they must have known I'd have just gotten on the train 5 minutes later, so by definition it's about the lateness (or non-appearance) of the train rather than the person.

Well, I'm not sure how it works for cancelled trains to be honest as I don;t think my local TOC has Delay Repay!

 

[soil]

The OP said that he wanted to catch the stopping train (presumaably the one that stops at Elstree) which would make it the 18.10 departure with a planned arrival in St Albans at 18.45.

Why would he catch the stopping train?

BZ6 - St Albans SDS is priced the same as Elstree & Borehamwood - St Albans SDS (no CDS fare) and would be valid on the fast train.

With an actual arrival time of 18:58, provided he arrived at St. P in time for the 18:06 fast to St Albans at 18:25, then he is delayed 30+ minutes and entitled to compensation.

If he was not in time for the 18:06, then he is not.

 

[Flamingo]

However, as is often the case, the trains that do run late are packed to the gunnels, extremely hot and very very uncomfortable. When a train is like that I'm happy to claim money back from delay repay for the inconvenience of being a train that transports people in such horrible conditions.

I'm claiming compensation for having to stand when I usually time my journey specifically so I can sit and not have my face smooshed against the window or into some tall hipster's sweaty, undeodorised armpit.

In my mind at least, delay repay is about compensating you for the inconvenience of the delayed train, whatever that inconvenience may be.

/edit
Also bear in mind that whether you claim delay repay or not the TOC still gets the money from Network Rail if it's their fault the delay occurred. I'd much rather the money go back to me than as a profit centre on their balance sheet. At least I'll be ploughing that money back into the rail network through the vouchers, rather than to shareholder's profits.

Whatever self-justification helps you sleep at night is up to you, the bottom line is fraud is fraud, and if you commit it and come a cropper at any stage in the future, I'll be interested to see the posts on the subject.

 

[34D]

There's nothing wrong with writing to FCC saying that you were a little delayed and you had to stand when normally you would not have had to, however filling in a delay repay claim to certify that you were 30 minutes late when you weren't is wrong, surely you can see that?

 

[Tibbs]

There's nothing wrong with writing to FCC saying that you were a little delayed and you had to stand when normally you would not have had to, however filling in a delay repay claim to certify that you were 30 minutes late when you weren't is wrong, surely you can see that?

I laid the facts before the TOC and the TOC made the decision to compensate me. At no point did I lie.

I didn't say I was late, and I still got compensation.

So, no, I don't see that as wrong.

 

[RJ]

Thanks all the same, but I pay 3 grand (that's 3 THOUSAND POUNDS) for my ticket.

I'm sure you make enough money that you light your cigars with £50 notes, and laugh at spending £3k on a ticket, but I don't. It's a massive percentage of my yearly salary.

At that point, I don't have a choice, I have to get the train as I can't afford to get home any other way.

The train companies got £184m from Network Rail for delays in 2011, and distributed only £650k per company to travellers! The rest is free money for them that should be compensation to us. They shouldn't have it, it's not for them.

They could do so much more to effectively distribute that rightful compensation to the travellers, but they don't. And at that point, I'm more than happy to take the occasional £12 in tokens that I spend back with the rail firms anyway.

How is it free money for them? They still have to pay any staff affected by disruption their overtime, then there will be other times they have to pay out to other TOCs (EMT, East Coast, Southern, Southeastern) for delays, so hardly money in the bank.

It's entirely your decision to live in such a way that you need to pay that much for a season ticket. I lived 5 miles away from my last job, paid nothing to take the bus to work or 95p each way if using the trains. I aimed to get into work at least 30 minutes early. If the trains were messed up, I could still take the bus to get in on time. If I didn't leave the extra 30 minute contingency for the train, a taxi would get me in on time for £12. Plus I always worked at times when the trains were not busy.

Again, it's your decision to fritter away your salary on season tickets, so the fact that you pay £3000 is neither here nor there. You can only morally justify claiming delay repay if you qualify under the delay repay T&Cs.

 

[Mr Spock]

Why would he catch the stopping train?

BZ6 - St Albans SDS is priced the same as Elstree & Borehamwood - St Albans SDS (no CDS fare) and would be valid on the fast train.

With an actual arrival time of 18:58, provided he arrived at St. P in time for the 18:06 fast to St Albans at 18:25, then he is delayed 30+ minutes and entitled to compensation.

If he was not in time for the 18:06, then he is not.

I don't know why he would catch the stopper but that is what he said he was going to do.

 

[yorkie]

I laid the facts before the TOC and the TOC made the decision to compensate me. At no point did I lie.

I didn't say I was late, and I still got compensation.

So, no, I don't see that as wrong.

The FCC website states:-

"Please be reminded that Delay Repay claims may only be made for journeys actually made where delays exceed 30 minutes or longer. Claiming for journeys not made is fraud."
​

If your journey was not delayed by 30 minutes or more, your claim is fraudulent.

For example if the train was 35 minutes late, but all trains were running late meaning your journey was only 25 minutes late, then a legitimate claim cannot be made.

The delay to any train is not what ultimately matters.

A passenger may be on a train that is 5 minutes late, but if that causes them to miss a 2-hourly train then their delay may well be 120 minutes. The claim is perfectly valid in this example.

Another passenger may have expected to wait 10 minutes for a train that was scheduled to take 60 minutes, and find all trains are delayed by 55 minutes, so they take a train 5 minutes earlier than planned, that train may make up time and they would be 10 minutes early. A claim for your journey being delayed in such circumstances would be fraudulent.